1950s Triple Calendar Opinion

I was hoping someone could tell me a bit more about this 1950s Triple Calendar gold with gold dial. The seller is asking $4500, which seems quite discounted from the 4240s and 4241s that I usually see. He was able to provide movement and case # but omitted the calibre and said he does not know the reference number. I haven't been able to find detials on this particular model on the history page: http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-articles/quantum-lea..., but it seems to fit the era. I've never seen gold on gold without red or blue numbers either.

Opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/01/2014 - 20:24

Greetings and welcome.

There were a large number of variations of the dial in terms of colour and the colour of the numbers and date windows in the 4240/1 watches. Gold on gold was such a variation. However there was a common layout pattern. The minute track was always on the outsiide nearest the bezel, unlike the one in the picture (a properly focuses photo would be very helpful BTW :-)  )

The ring with the hour indices did not contain minute indicators and I have never seen one with the inner ring as on your dial.

It just might be an unusual variation.

Sometimes the reference number is on the inside back of the case along with the case serial number.

You really have to get the case and movement numbers and check them out.

Additional photos of the case side, crown, inside case back and movement would also help.

The movement on the 4240 was usually a ref. 485

That price is an absolute steal if the watch is genuine but you should lead with your head (as you are doing) and not with your heart, as it may get broken blush

Good luck!

JB

Re: Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/02/2014 - 00:27

Thanks for the info JB! Your tips were super helpful. It's a challenge deciding on this one. The dealer in my opinion is quite safe - they own a storefront in a high-end area of NYC and have many others in their shop that are definitely geniuine and listed at market price . So, this particular watch is a bit perplexing to me given the dial differences from more common models out there and the price of 1/2-1/3 the market rate. I'm not a big fan of the gold on gold, but if somehow I can be convinced it's authenticity, I feel like I'd have eto pull the trigger at that price.

Re: Re: Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/02/2014 - 01:46
You're most welcome. There are a few, though not many with gold on gold dial and black lettering. It's just that your dial is so unusual for a 4240. Alex may be able to help you with a definitive answer. If I knew the S/N's I could give you an approximate date. It may not even be a 4240?! But it's caveat emptor, as you know! Even the dealer may not be aware of whether the watch is really genuine. That has happened before, and even with auction houses who retain in-house experts and have significant resources to research watches. JB
JB is correct, if you can provide the case and movement numbers I
12/02/2014 - 09:09

can check. The dial is quite unusual and I don't feel fully comfortable with it but once I have all the numbers I can check and this may be an original and rare dial!

It appears to have teardrop lugs which would make it a ref. 4241
12/02/2014 - 14:58

rather than a 4240.  The dial is very unusual as JB and Alex have prevoiusly noted.

Caution warranted on dial
12/02/2014 - 16:49

I'm most puzzled by the long minute hand which tracks along the date ring.  If V&C had created this dial, they should have made it with appropriate hands.  As it is, the hands would be a perfect fit on the conventional dial that Joseph described, with minute track outermost.  Is there SWISS at 6 o'clock?

Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/03/2014 - 00:18

I am not 100% sure but why calander starts from 1 instead 31 at 12 position? I do not think i seen that before.

Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/03/2014 - 22:15

If it helps, my 4241 has the minute track on the inside and the calendar starts at 1 instead of 31.  It has been authenticated as genuine by VC in Geneva.

 

 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion

Re: Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/04/2014 - 00:04

Nugget, thank you for the input. I just notice the calander dates from 12 to 23 on your are upside down, i am not sure witch one is correct OPs or yours.

 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion

1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/04/2014 - 10:00

VC sent me a photograph of a new 4241 dial from that era which has the numbers upside down.  That is not to say that VC has always done it this way!

1950s Triple Calendar Opinion

Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/04/2014 - 01:43

Thanks for everyones input! VC Archives responded saying the watch is in fact genuine given the case/movement numbers. They said it was manufactured in 1945 and is a ref 4241. They obviously couldn't comment on the dial, etc - so we're still debating whether or not it's been re-done or replaced. One of the guys who writes for a popular watch blog was 99.9% sure the dial had been re-done (poorly).  Anyone have hard evidence the contrary? 

Re: Re: 1950s Triple Calendar Opinion
12/04/2014 - 03:46

Well, I wasn't too far off on dates, given the numbers although i would have said 1943-44. But then cases and movements could have been made in 1942-44 and then mated in 1945.

As for the dial, I tend to agree with the blogger, but I was reluctant to say so. I would go a little further and say that the dial may not be be VC at all, although the hands and pointer are. Having seen photos of 4240/1 from those years, as well as my own 4240, the dial does look very odd.

My 4241 has the same numbering
12/04/2014 - 02:48

Both before it was sent to VC for refurbishing and after, although the minute track is on the outside as in all other examples that I have seen.

1940s Triple Calendar model
12/04/2014 - 11:10

Here is a 1940s VC model to complete the dial versions made by VC in those years:

 

1940s Triple Calendar model

1940s Triple Calendar model

 

 

 

track is outside and numbers for days are homogeneously reported between 3H and 9H.

Not mine, but for sale in Paris Boutique.

Best wishes,

Liger

interesting the archives mention that the
12/05/2014 - 11:22

dial should look like this. But ovbiously the archives team would need to see it in the flesh to provide a definitive opinion

!!!
12/05/2014 - 16:49

Alex, can you share the wording of the archive entry?  Would be a very interesting development.

I don't have access to the archives! I just sent photo and serial numbers to
12/05/2014 - 17:47

archive dept and they told me that the dial looked correct. 

Re: I don't have access to the archives! I just sent photo and serial numbers to
12/05/2014 - 18:58

That is very interesting, Alex.

I have to confess, I am a bit surprised. You just never know.

Joseph

Hi JB, I would have guessed the dial looked wrong as well.
12/08/2014 - 02:44

These unique items that makse one never really know is a fascinating aspect of VC's history.

I can imagine this dial was a custom piece, possibly requested by the original buyer?

Congratulations aroz66, you have found quite an interesting piece. yes

Thanks for sharing it with us and welcome to THL!

Best Regards, Dan