47212 vs 5970P

Two Lemania-packing PT versions side by side:-

47212 vs 5970P

what a difference 2mm makes... I have not weighed the watches (I am a busy man you know), but you certainly get a lot more platinum from VC.

47212 vs 5970P

There, that perspective makes them the same size !

the Top wesselton diamond makes all the difference I find (NOT).

47212 vs 5970P

I say, those look like the same movement... some bridges removed, different balance 'arrangement' and stuff like that...

47212 vs 5970P

The 47212 in edition of just 50; whereas the 5970P is not a defined production run, but it might be considered 'limited' in the sense that there are unlikely to be all that many - guesses range around the 250 mark (but hey, you only need one!

47212 vs 5970P

Now, VC... tell me again why you didn't put square pushers on the 47212? Why oh why oh why. Oh well, variety is the spice etc

They both sit wellon my wrist, the VC actually although larger sits best. The PP caseback is somewhat raised and the watch has more of a tendency to 'wobble' a little more (nut really we are splitting hairs here). The PP fits my medium sized wrist better. the VC lugs are somewhat longer, and so protrude further. they have a LOT more character than the PP (a VC 'signature I guess).

47212 vs 5970P

Concave bezel on the PP. You don't even relaise it the first time you see this case... and then it plays optical illusions with you thereafter... sometimes your brain thinks it isn't and then you see that it indeed is... i didn't like it to begin with (in the scheme of things) but like it nowadays. Another thing on this... it does prevent nasty scratches on the bezel surface - and if that's the reason for it, it works!

47212 vs 5970P

The clasp on the PP is one simple deployant. The VC is a double version and more 'fiddly' to put on. Obviously I have become skilled at the VC taking off, and on again, as having attended a few VC dinners and SIHH's and events the thing comes off all the time as we pass our watches round the table for everyone to 'hang their noses over them all'.... all great fun!

47212 vs 5970P

The winding of the VC each day is MUCH more pleasurable than on the PP. The crown on the VC is a little larger, and doesn't 'wind-back' after each wind like the PP does. you get a nice 'clicking from the VC vs a gentle 'purr' on the PP. You have to put the PP to your ear to hear the winding... I enjoy the feel of the VC much more.

The PP pushers are better though.

47212 vs 5970P

It is a pretty thing the PP. Since the hands are all shiny and bevelled/rounded, it is much easier to tell the time in poor light than with the VC. It doesn't have the character of the VC Platinum 'sandblasted' dial though, and I appreciate the different fonts used on the VC. However, the Moonphase is incomparable on the VC - as we all know it is the best moonphase dial in the whole world. Period. It is easier to see the day, month and date on the PP.

One additional hand / complication on the PP over the VC is the 24hour hand in the 9 0'clock subdial..... not at all handy - until you come to re-set the watch after a period lying dormant - then it comes into it's own as you set the time and date.


there you go folks... I hope you like the photos and some of my insights..

Hope to see you again soon!



G47212 vs 5970P


Movement finish?? (I hear you say). Well, about the same (there are differences of course, but let's leave it there). BUT I prefer how PP have delivered the final product in this regard. The VC has a few little bridges that PP did away with. I prefer the cleaner look of the PP - just my view.

Accuracy? Not a clue.

G
02/05/2011 - 13:51
02/05/2011 - 21:51
02/05/2011 - 19:49
02/05/2011 - 21:58
02/06/2011 - 00:40
02/06/2011 - 12:06
Doc
02/06/2011 - 01:25
02/06/2011 - 12:11
SJX
02/06/2011 - 10:20
02/06/2011 - 14:54
NL
02/16/2011 - 04:09
Hi G, great compare and contrast
02/05/2011 - 14:29
It covers a lot of different points and details that make all the difference to us in WISdom.  Thanks for your first-hand insights! BR, Dan
Re: Hi G, great compare and contrast
02/05/2011 - 15:21
Thanks Dan - pleased you liked the small review. I know we can go into more details, those were the salient highlights for me... Best G
you made my week end! rare to see these two beauties side by side and
02/05/2011 - 15:22
Its amazing how each has its own feel even though they share same movement. You are also a man of taste :-)
Re: you made my week end! rare to see these two beauties side by side and
02/05/2011 - 15:34
Thank you Alex... your stamp of approval has made my weekend! So - which do you prefer!? G
ha the million $ question! If I had the funds my preference would go
02/05/2011 - 18:39
the VC because of the overal design which I find more appealing and the engraved moonphase is almost justification by itself. The sand blasted platinum dial on the VC is sheer beauty too. I am not a huge fan of white metals with black dials but a RG 5970 would have probably made the choice more difficult. On the other hand I find the dial of the PP more balanced as the appertures on the dial seem larger than on the VC. Any of these would make me a hapy man though
Re: ha the million $ question! If I had the funds my preference would go
02/05/2011 - 21:49
I would agree with you in the end, though I must say the 5970 in G or P are wonderful. And you know how I know? Which one would I more easily part with? Yes, the PP could eventually go (e.g. for that Laurent Ferrier personal 'nuisance' of a watch or a beautiful Kari V!) The VC - I'll keep that, thank you very much... G
two grail watches, the PP is classical and the VC avant garde, I have
02/05/2011 - 18:26
to say that the moonphase on the VC is drop dead gorgeous
Thank you Mr Ace!
02/05/2011 - 21:51
Let me know when you see a better moonphase disc! G
Great comparo, Gary!
02/05/2011 - 19:49
Thanks for treating us to your perspectives on these two beauties. Having held your VC, I can affirm your claim about the weight of that PT case! The black dial on the PP looks super in your photos -- my guess is that with the very bright PT case it looks unreal. This is the first comparison of these two pieces by an owner that I've seen -- thanks for filling us in. Last thing -- if you'd like to swap either for my new VC chrono, I'll consider it... :-) Best, GaryG
You are a very
02/05/2011 - 21:58
generous man! I will take you up on me buying the Ti Chrono... but might pass on the other proposed trade (unless you inlcude a fancy Kari!) You're correct that the black contrasts very well with the case,, and ... the hands and hour markers on the dial. It is a busy dial... but wow it gets comments. More than the QP Chrono EP. It is so classical PP. I like the WG version too, but that is slightly less hefty and the PT version isn't what you'd call hefty (once you are used to the VC). Very happy you liked my shots... I have to work hard with poor equipment. That's what the wife says anyway. G
Great way to begin the day...
02/05/2011 - 21:04
Enjoyed your review after breakfast...set me up for a great day .  Interesting how both pieces show their respective heritage.  The PP speaks 1940's Officer's watch, while the VC harkens to earlier times with pocket watch references in the dial. Is it my imagination or does the VC movement have more pronounced anglage?
Re: Great way to begin the day...
02/05/2011 - 22:04
Hi Dean... pleased you were cheered by the watches. Actually, I don't think there is a valid difference in the anglage. But I would say that the cotes de geneve are a lot better on the PP, and the moevent design overall - as amended by PP, has been done better as well. And, don't forget that for one reason and another, the PP does carry the Geneva Seal, and VC couldn't put it on (though I can tell you I am certain the required std has been surpassed). For some reason I'm pleased these 5970's were issued before the PP seal was introduced - but if I had to tell you why I couldn't tell you - it just holds more store for me at the moment. G
Maybe a better view..
02/06/2011 - 15:09
of each.. I prefer the PP movement overall, except the cap to the column wheel, which on the VC I love that you can actrually see the innerds better and the chrono mechanism when you start the thing (if you are looking at the backside when you press the buttons. Again my wife likes this approach.... risque?):- Your thoughts? G
First hand comparisons ...
02/07/2011 - 15:38
of owners which enjoy their watches on the wrist, are hard to beat I appreciated your observations, thoughts and pictures a lot. Thanks! Still think both are too big for my wrist and therefore no decision is needed. Lucky me - in this case. A decisions wouldn´t be that easy ... Oliver
Can you imagine
02/07/2011 - 17:44
.. what the men and women in the Manufacture must think when their watches don't get worn? Travesties... Thankyou for your appreciation Oliver. If you think they are too big for you, then they are too big for you no matter how hard I try to convince you otherwise! Maybe we can try that routine again next time.. you now, the PP is a little snaller, and would look good.. Cheers Gary
Would love that ...
02/07/2011 - 23:11
kind of routine - again and again ... Regarding the size: To me it looks and feels too big for what it is - a classical watch. Is it only me? Oliver
I know which one I want
02/06/2011 - 00:40
...and I am on the right forum, too. Oh, VC, you had me with that moon face!   Ot is amazing to me how clean the dial is on the 47212 for a perpetual chronograph with a moonphase.  Nothin looks crowded or illegible.  I have 2 or 3 dream watches, or grails (although I hate to use that overused word), and this VC is one of them.   Well, thanks for the comparison and for making me drool. Best, respo
Thanks Respo
02/06/2011 - 12:06
VC for me too! (I think we have similar tastes - I think you got the 1921? So did I )...
Five things!
02/06/2011 - 01:25
PP is hard to read. PP has nicest buttons. VC is outstanding beautiful. Why don't people say 'in-house' any longer? Absolute great article! Choice is easy - VC ! Doc
Nice summary Doc...
02/06/2011 - 12:11
very concise! I would use 'in-house' if I thought it were true... like the 1400 for example. Taking in a Lemania chrono module and working the PP or VC magic onto it is not, to me, in house. I had several conversations with about 4 different VC staff to try and ascertain the exact status of the movement origins in the QP Chrono EP... it took some time but my understanding is that the perpetual calendar is VC, the base/chrono is not. Maybe I'm still confused and in need of authoritive input? Probably. Glad you like the VC G
Try to make an authoritive input,
02/06/2011 - 14:59
it's as simple that ALL the big brands and fine watch makers, were no watch makers at all! As long as to the 70s nearly all did the same. Made beautiful cases, some complications and put in an ebauche, which they had brushed up, so it was much more beautiful than the original, Lemania. le Coultre etc etc That's how it's been for hundreds of years and why not today? Obviously the antagonists VC and PP can still use the same ebauche, since they can't beat it - still! Cheers and thanks again for your post Doc
Thanks for the comparison
02/06/2011 - 10:20
A beautiful pair though I prefer the Patek by a bit, mainly for the movement changes as you note. Cheers, - SJX
Hi SJX
02/06/2011 - 14:54
.. thanks for your honesty on the VC site! that will get you invited to the VC booth next year! Already looking forward to it.. G
Great review, Gary! Fantastic pictures of both watches...
02/06/2011 - 13:03
Where do I sign up for watch photography classes?
Radek, you just have to take
02/06/2011 - 14:50
1,000 pictures and then check which ones came out in focus. (oh... and it helps if you're not grabbing an electric fence at the time - in this particular regard - although that can, as we know, be useful in others!). There... wise advice I think you'll find. G
really interesting comparison Gary
02/06/2011 - 17:29
I learn some information and appreciate your photos and explanations regarding specificities of these 2 great watches. I like more the VC platinium dial and the moon face. The Perpetual Calendar is not ny taste due to the busy dial involved, just my pity. So the Lemania chrono reviewed by VC pleased better to me. Thanks for sharing this report. Liger
I appreciate your comments Liger
02/07/2011 - 17:49
thanks for making them. My tastes stretch across simple to complicated... so I know what you mean about the busy dials. However, I have always aspired to the QP... I find it more useful than a Tourbillon for example, and maybe one day I'll get a Minute repeater of some sort - but if I did it would have to be a simple watch in all other respects.  A complicated thing this watch interest. Gary
another comparaison between the VC 47212 and the Patek 5970P
02/06/2011 - 18:54
this one is from 2008 click here to see the post
I think I prefer the silver dial of the WG watch.. (nt)
02/07/2011 - 11:51
!
Thanks for this beautiful post
02/07/2011 - 18:01

with 2 marvels. The VC has more presence, the PP is more classical. I love how PP made this grand complications look thin and easy to wear with the work on the case back and on the bezel. Though personnality and poetry are Vacheron main advatages, especially on this excellence version, one of the best Vacheron ever imho. No preference here, 2 fantastic watches, really can't decide. A friend tried both platinum and white gold version of the 5970, he had also a strong preference for the White GOld, the platinum is a bit heavy, sporty and the dial is finally flat in comparison to the WG. cheers Francois

If I had had the available funds at the time
02/07/2011 - 18:30
I am certain I would have gone for the White Gold. As it is, I like the fact that I have the platinum VC dial and the black PP dial version... they quite clearly have very different looks. Thank you for your praise for the post Francois. Gary
Re: 47212 vs 5970P
02/16/2011 - 04:09
I own both however the 5970 I own is in white gold. I would pick the VC but my only complaint is the less balanced look due to the round pushers. The moon phase disc is absolutely gorgeous. The watch worn by collin farel in Miami vice is more balanced and likewise has the platinum disc. Hoping for comments from the experts