About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering about a pocket watch, that appear to be made before Vacheron & Constantin brand ( Probably before 1819? ) there is only Vacheron engraved on it. So far I'm only guessing about this pocket watch history and I'm giving you some picture links and I'll appreciate if someone, who know more about it share his thoughts. Exact year of manifacturing, model name, if any .. 14K or 18K gold and etc.

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!

  

Thanks to all for your time!

Alex

Hi and wellcome!
03/28/2008 - 14:25

About your watch, it's a very simple, nearly rough, as I can see from pictures.

There should be signed vacheron Constantin on the movement or handgraved on the inner cover,

like this from 1827 :

There should be hallmarks for 18K and Geneva hallmark and probably a number on inside of the outer back-lid.

On this from beginning of 1900, with an elegant movement, you can see hallmarks on the inside of

the backlid. 18 K, Geneva hallmark and number.

Number of movement and case are never the same.

The movement is also signed, but some early movements they were not signed.

I think of what I can see from the pics, which have to be closer, it's hard to say it's a genuine Vacheron&Constantin.

If you compare, I'll think you see the difference

Doc

Re: Hi and wellcome!
03/28/2008 - 15:13

Hello and thanks for your answer Doc.

Well, I'm considering the facts you talked about, but there is no Vacheron & Constantin signes, but ONLY Vacheron .. following by GENEVE and Cylindre 8 Rubis. This is the only reason why I firstly thought, that might be produced before Vacheron and Constantin start making watches together. ( Don't laugh, I'm still laic in that )

Don't saw any 14K or 18K stamps either. The owner of the watch told me it's 14K, but however I was wanting to check it additionally. The numbers stamped on the lids does not talk me anything, but they are same .. on the upper and lower lid.

So a short summary .. : The watch is too old ( before they start making them as you described above ) or the watch is too fake?

Unfortunatelly the pictures available are on 1024 x 768 Pixels and I have posted some links, but someone have resize them  in my first post :)

Anyway, thanks for your time and for trying help me figuring out the situation.

Just a final thought, the guy who own this pocket watch have a 32 pocket watch collection, so he gave me 3 of them for research on their origin. So far I have done nothing about the Vacheron :) , but I have one IWC made and One Omega Grand Prix 1900 pictured, both are gold and if you or someone else have interest helping me out with them I'll be happy to provide some pictures as well.

Thank you guys.

Alex

Facts are
03/28/2008 - 15:40

that Vacheron had several names, before 1819, when it became Vacheron&Constantin.

Here you can see them all, but none is like the one you show

Vacheron has made more moveents than watches, so they sold them as ebauches,

to other watchmaker.

This is possible in this case, but would be impossible to say,

since the movement is not signed.

No one ever avoided, as you surely understand, to put a hallmark if it was 14K or 18 K,

yes even 9K ! This is probably goldplated.

So if it has a personal affection, than it's worth keeping,

otherwise it probably doesn't will convert into a real Vacheron

And finally, we only discuss VacheronConstantin on this forum,

but please stay and follow our discussions, than you sooner or later than

will end up with a V&C

Cheers

Doc

I am afraid you are incorrect
03/28/2008 - 15:48

Because your picture cannot have a 1820s watch - this type of caliber is 1890 and up with anchor escapement, while the topicstarter shows a cylinder watch. At least 60 years make too much difference to compare such different timepieces.

Re: I am afraid you are incorrect
03/28/2008 - 16:20

I think you missed the date that Doc mentioned for movement.  

If you look closely, Doc mentions that the movement is from an 1900's watch - so there are two watches shown (1820's and 1890's) and not one, as you may have been led to believe. 

Of course, I can understand your argument about comparing watches that are probably more than 60 years apart.

At any rate, that is a nice piece you have there!!

Best regards,

Kazumi

Re: About Antique Pocket Watch! All comments welcomed!
03/28/2008 - 15:36

Hi!

I post below a picture of another Vacheron a Geneve. The properties of my watch are: weight 45.75 grams, diameter 44 mm. It is cylinder escapement with finely done details (bluish screws, polished off facettes). It has 'bull eye' glass, Breguet hands, it does not have any gold mark of 18k (exactly as it should be for the time), only the number and special marks of watchmen services. The cylinder caliber is to be 1820-1840, but I think a closer would be 1820s.

2 small correction to my post above
03/28/2008 - 16:05

it is 1825-1840 (not 1820 as I wrote) and the second note - the box is pre 1900 but not original.

I've got more confused than the start :)
03/28/2008 - 16:41

Thanks to all of you for your kind help and time spended with my concerns.

If I understand correct after all, the watch I have posted in my first post is more .. enything else than Vacheron, right?

Thanks to Doc, I have checked the Vacheron marks during the time and the one from my watch is not there. After all is there a possible option to be produced during the 1825-1850  range ( the empty time space from the Doc's list ) ?

So, I'm again in start position, but with one idea more, that the watch is not authentic.

Re: I've got more confused than the start :)
03/28/2008 - 17:25

There are a lot of things to be condused in watchmakng history :)

To add confusion I would say that my piece wich I exhibited above has the case, dial and hands exactly corresonding to the year 1808, but the ebauche is from 1825. The same case with this engaving was present in the Antiquorum auction in 2003 (that was a confirmed piece by VC).

So do not judge too fast, look further into the matter by browsing auction catalogs - you would have to find a comparable piece.

Doc's comment!
03/28/2008 - 17:30

If you read the post it would have been easier,

it was to show where the hallmarks and serial number are.

Second, this is how my Vacheron, quarter repeater,

from 1827 looks inside.

I have all names of the ten different watchmakers that created it.

And this is the dial side.

If you look in the books "Secrets of VacheronConstantin" or "The World of VacheronConstantin",

you will find VC'smuseum watch, except that theirs is not a quarterrepeater.

Doc

Re: Doc's comment!
03/28/2008 - 19:49

I am not claiming the Alex's piece is 100% original, but I do not see why he had to look for the hallmarks on the mechanism and 18k signs on the cover to confirm the autenticity. I guess that your piece is not signed on the ebauche as well and probably does not have goldmark either.

I think what must be done is to evaluate how ebauche is made (should be top quality), and if the "Vacheron" was engraved at a later time (our time actually).

Welcome to the Lounge Alex, I can only share thedoubts expressed by
03/28/2008 - 18:39

others here since the watch is neither signed on movement or dial and that the movement does not have any markings or numbers. The case does not seem to be stamped with any hallmarks either. If you want to post bigger scans click on the + icon and directly upload via your computer.

Re: Welcome to the Lounge Alex, I can only share thedoubts expressed by
03/28/2008 - 20:10

Hello namesake :)

and thanks for your opinion as well.

Well, here are the actual pictures in the size I got them. any final thought regarding them?

1

2

3

Thank you once again!

the photos can't be enlarged if you post via a link to your
03/28/2008 - 20:21

photo hoster. You need to upload them directly on the Hour Lounge server

Re: the photos can't be enlarged if you post via a link to your
03/28/2008 - 20:23

Well, they seems like they should be in the post now. They are 1024x size, so they appear correct now and larger than the first ones, right ... or they do just for me?

Watch now on Fleabay...
03/29/2008 - 00:25

What do you guys/gals think of these posts that try to establish value and legitimacy for selling purposes?  This guy wasn't even upfront about it.

What a shame! :(
03/29/2008 - 10:06

To act like this.

Bad style, you are doing it difficult for a lot of people,
03/29/2008 - 00:36

by fooling us like this.

In this way we will be careful to engage us 

with newcomers in the future.

I put some exspensive time on you, who just wanted asking of a watch at ebay

There the pics also are big!

Good bye.

Doc

Judged me so fast?
03/29/2008 - 14:22

Hello,

Well, I do not see a reason to all of you to come to this conclusions so fast. I'm not the owner .. and not the seller either. I'm a friend with the owner of this pocket watch collection who provide me with 3 models ( VC, IWC and Omega ) and some pictures and ask me to do a reasearch on them, nothing more. All that I learned here I told to him, as this is what I use to do. I'm sorry, but I'll make a profit from this just as much as you gonna do, so please excuse me, but I think you are not entirely right. I cannot be responsible, if the owner decide to offer them for sale or give the same pictures to another guy to sell the watch for him. With your words now you makes me feel misleaded .. and probably I should.

However I'm not feeling very good knowing I'm not welcomed here and it probably be better, if the entire topic are deleted.

Farewell

Alex

I agree with Alex, leave this post up...
03/30/2008 - 01:54

so that any prospective buyers doing research may find it and know the guy is a BS artist.

One reason I really respect this forum is because the participants don't have pecuniary interests in the discussions.  The often-repeated advice given in response to queries on value has been to encourage posters to do their own research.  Maybe this should also be the norm on questions of authenticity unless its an active forum member (perhaps a certain number of posts or months of participation?)

One sign of the HL's growing popularity is that the forum will attract scammers and con artists.  We need to deal with it as a community of participants now rather than later.  Any other ideas?

Old pocket watch - Just another fake?
02/18/2015 - 13:39

 

Hello all,

I know you're only interested in true Vacheron & Constantin watches and ready to dismiss as fake all the rest.

Still, I want to show this one belonging to my family.  I'll like to upload some photos, it's quite similar to the one posted by Bicheto years ago,.

Amazing enough, it works pretty good.

Best regards, nice website to navigate through,

Marco