After Alex outstanding article I want you to,

have a look in the answers and at my reply to Alex! This because I put a link to a post I made 2007 about Louis Cottier, who is as much of interest now than since when he was still at work! He is the base upon where all world watches stands. It's an article from the magazine VOX, that you always got from Antiquorum, 4 times a year, when you were a regular customer to them, as I was. I saved them, as I saved 100s of catalogues from Antiquorum and I will try and come back with some interesting and unusual posts, as usual... Of course I'm talking of the'real' Antiquorum, when Mr Patrizzi was boss and it was full swing! So see you, but please try reading the article, it's very infornative, also you can enlarge the pages so it's read able. http://www.thehourlounge.com/index.php?module=Thread&action=view&threadid=5377&id=5377 Doc
that particular auction was just amazing, probably one of
04/10/2011 - 10:58
the most impressive catalogues I had ever seen, along with the one from Oct 2003 which featured about 10 VCs no one had ever seen!
yep! nt
04/12/2011 - 02:15
vc
Patrizzi Drama
04/11/2011 - 19:21
Doc, Alex or anyone else...I love to know what has developed over the past year between Antiquorum and Patrizzi!  Patrizzi's "rebuttal" website click here to see appears moribund .
Re: Patrizzi Drama
04/11/2011 - 19:57
Hi Dean, I heard that Patrizzi's outfit went "belly-up" and he's closed most of his operations. Not sure of the facts though. JB
The question is why the magnificent vintage V&Cs went ...
04/11/2011 - 23:30
... so down (and were not maintained shuch as PPs) after The Quarter Millennium of Vacheron Constantin Antiquorum's auction (14 may 2005) ?? I am still wondering... Berny
Berny, 100% with you!
04/12/2011 - 02:38
Perhaps it was so easy that the Millennium Auction took in so enormous amount of money, that he realised he would never be near again. I think it still is the outstanding most successful auction Antiquorum had! And how engaged he was, in the end his voice was almost gone! Doc
My question is why after the Quarter century auction...
04/12/2011 - 21:24
...nobody seemed not to be interested in V&Cs anymore (ie Mr Patrizzi, Antiquorum, the brand...) ? If you look at the results of vintage watches auctions: not only PPs but also vintage APs chronographs, have better results than V&Cs : WHY is it ? If people have any clue: I'll be happy to get some hints. Berny
Analysis
04/12/2011 - 22:58

My conjecture, reinforced after SIHH, is that the manufacture is conflicted about how much to support their vintage heritage.  I think some don't want a vintage market to draw sales away from new models or resources away from new watch production.  If the vintage stocks are decimated by high restoration costs so that only the ultra-fine pieces are left, they would present less of a threat while still generating a nice little profit center.  Fine to stock a few in the museum (many bought at the QM of VC auction) as long as their purpose is to establish the historical credibility of the newer pieces.

Dean I think that you have a biased view on the VC vintage restoration
04/12/2011 - 23:27
department, they are not expensive because they want to destroy their own vintage market but because it takes a lot of time and effort sometimes needing to recreate specific components from scratch. I've had vintage VCs, APs and PPs serviced and believe me VC is not the most expensive! To come back to the original question, VC doesn't want to support the vintage market and drive up prices artificially as they believe that its a market which should regulate itself without outside intervention
We ALL have biases Alex!
04/13/2011 - 00:50
I admitted right up front that it was conjecture.  You speak of VC as a corporation, but I'm speaking of the people that make the policies and their biases. I was told it wouldn't be a bad thing if the "junk" in the vintage market was scrapped because of high restoration costs.  I would agree if we were talking about frankens and fakes, or pieces damaged beyond reason.  But as it stands, any vintage V&C under $5k isn't worth servicing at VC, and under $10k not worth restoring.  So we have differing opinions on what constitutes junk.  So along with real junk will go nice simple watches that would serve as entry-points into the brand. Support doesn't have to mean buying the pieces to inflate prices.  I don't believe in that at all .  I think we've often talked of other ways to support vintage: 1. better archival documentation 2. affordable authentication process 3. reasonable service costs 4. aggressive trademark action against fakes and frankens 5. parts available to independent repair facilities Anyone care to add to this list?
you may be taking someones personnal opinion as brand policy! whoever
04/13/2011 - 09:47
told you about scrapping the lower priced vintages was certainly giving a personnal opinion unless it was Charly Torres. The vintage/restoration department is a rather large one and if they were only to work on minute repeaters and chronos they wouldn't have all that much to do as most of their servicing is done on PW and time onlys 
on a side note VC buys watches at auction or private parties and after
04/13/2011 - 10:17
having serviced them has these watches for sale in their Geneva and Shanghai stores and currently there are PW (time only), simple models, chronos, triple dates and a minute repeater!
Re: Analysis
04/13/2011 - 00:09
V&Cs aficionados might/should have both vintage and new such as an American 1921, a Patrimony Contemporaine and a chronograph ref 4178 according to me !
I have no deeper knowledge about his
04/12/2011 - 02:31
economical status, but I know at least a bit of the dance around the 'Gold Calf', Aniquorum, lead by some very dubious Japanese 'managers', incompetent of course. They overpaid Osvaldo, at least on paper. How much he got in reality, I still think is up to the solicitors. And they can drain you fast... Worst is if Osvaldo has suffered as person, and I do beleive so. I talked to his CEO in the 'resytarted' Patrizzi&company, but all know it's only been one specialized auctionfirm. Antiquorum. Doc
Post should have been above under Dean's!
04/12/2011 - 02:33
vc
I'll be back Dean,
04/12/2011 - 02:21
when I read it. I know that several of the known old 'sins' were involved, as well as theever hope, that more money makes you happier! For Osvaldo it's tragic, for collectors is tragic, and for the future market, and value of the vintage watches it's disastrous, that Osvaldo no longer is at the rudder! Doc
Patrizzi more or less went bust with his latest auction house, he has
04/12/2011 - 23:18
now teamed up with a Chinese auction house and takes care of the watch auctions
Alex, you know as well a I,
04/14/2011 - 02:27
that Patrizzi is a survivor. He will live a good life with beautiful art surounding him, in NY or where he now is staying ;-) Doc
The cat :-)
04/15/2011 - 12:54
e