Beware of Broken V&Cs

While surfing an internet watch site, I came across a rather nice V&C wristwatch.  While the seller posted several pics, none were of the "guts" so I asked for a pic of the movement.  Notice anything?

Beware of Broken V&Cs

I suggested that a picture or description of the damage be included in his listing but so far it has not appeared.  Another one of these Florida-based internet retailers....Beware of Broken V&Cs

On a better note, we are enjoying the last days of summer up here so I went climbing.  Here I am stopped for lunch....

Beware of Broken V&Cs
Re: Beware of Broken V&Cs
09/25/2008 - 23:09
Well, due diligence is always important, isn't it? JB
Re: Beware of Broken V&Cs
09/25/2008 - 23:35
Previous message short because of work! Good call! The swan neck index adjuster is broken. Someone never checked the movement! Many of the screws are different too, but hey, the watch is likely from the 1950's. You should get a big discount BTW JB
I remember I was at a very reputable vintage dealer's who had a
09/26/2008 - 00:25
fabulous time only vintage VC with a phenomenal two tone dial and a hefty price tag which went with the watch. I asked to see the movement and the dealer was very reluctant telling me that the movement was fine and that he didn't want to (understandably) keep opening the back up as to avoid dirt getting in there. When I told him there was no way I would buy the watch without seeing the movement he opened it and surprise: the swan neck was missing but even worse the case back was not signed!!!! You can never do enough due diligence with vintage watches. 
V&C buyers need to demand better...
09/26/2008 - 03:49
from dealers, internet or otherwise.  Pretty funny how many listings will say that a watch has received a service from a qualified watchmaker yet there are no pictures of the innards!  Its just common sense to photograph the movement when a watch is opened for so-called "service", unless there is something to hide.  The outfit that was trying to move this broken piece is a very large and well known internet retailer (pm me for details). Now that V&C vintage pieces are getting some attention in the marketplace, it's time for buyers to demand better documentation, descriptions and return policies from dealers.  I dare say the average vintage Patek offering provides more details and documentation, which suggests the average Patek buyer demands more. It would be great if the Hour Lounge became a focus for such a consumer movement...
Re: V&C buyers need to demand better...
09/26/2008 - 04:04
Its interesting that  a lot (but not all) of the vintage pieces for sale on eBay do have photos of the "innards" (inside of case back and movement). The one's that don't get passed by. Some even allow you to magnify the images to scrutinize it more carefull.. Caveat emptor was never so true! Usually if the person or dealer has experience with watches, they will include the movement photo or send you a photo on request... but if they're a jeweller or someone just flipping the watch, forget it. What a world, what a world...! JB
I have seen a huge number of fake PPs with real certificates of
09/26/2008 - 11:16
authenticity, that's because the fakers are getting better and better take down the case and movement number from any auction catalogue engrave it on the watch and ask for a certificate from PP The real problem today is counterfeiting in the vintage world not modern timepieces.....
Certification
09/27/2008 - 00:16
Then it would seem that VC's policy of having to send the watch in for examination is the wiser one. But it's a bit after the fact, if you've already purchased it. Know the seller, make sure they have a good reputation, are sincere, easy to deal with and stand behind their watches. The other advantage that VC vintage pieces have is that their values (whether for the good or not) are not hyper-inflated like PP's, so there is less incentive to make a knock off. But I would be the first to admit that any brand is vulnerable. But if I were going to "knock off" a vintage piece it would likely be a PP or Rolex. Joseph
Re: Certification
09/27/2008 - 01:14
It may be that the extra time required to ship a watch to VC for authentication discourages dealers from doing it.  OTOH, those that actually obtain a certificate have a better guarantee than PP's archival extract.  It seems that speed of turn-around drives dealers as you rarely see certificates accompanying vintage V&C pieces whereas the PP document is common.
O Canada! Another beautiful photo!
09/26/2008 - 17:33
Where were you this time?  Stunning scenery & viewpoint!    Nicholas
Brad Pitt
09/27/2008 - 01:21
We were in an area beside Banff National Park called Kananaskis, a Cree name.  Just out of the picture to the right but easily visible to us was the film site of Brad Pitt's movie The Assasination of Jesse James.  They build a western town in the middle of the trees then tore it down and you can only see the clearing now.