Is the Cal. 1120 really in-house?

Alex, I've heard the calibre 1120 as used by VC in the Historiques 1968 is actually supplied by Renaud & Papi, a division of AP.  Please tell me the facts!
Both VC and AP have the rights to cal 1120 (AP cal 2120) and 1003 (Aça
07/04/2012 - 18:54
cal 2003). It is true that part of the components are machined by AP ( not sure if it is Renaud et Papi) but obviously VC makes some major modifications for the movement to be compliant with the Geneva Seal.
Deja Vu, all over again ;-)
07/04/2012 - 19:31
So this reflects the traditional partnership of JLC and V&C, inasmuch as the ebauche is provided by a supplier and final finishing by VC.  The Geneva Seal only requires that a movement be "assembled, adjusted and cased-up in the Canton of Geneva".  I feel embarassed for having touted the movement as being in-house, yet it sticks in my mind that Mr. Torres and other official sources referred to the 1120 as a manufacture movement...am I hallucinating?
Dean you should know better! There is more to the Geneva Seal than
07/04/2012 - 19:41
Just having assembly done in Geneva. There are a series of technical requirements as well which are the modifications made by VC to the raw kit recieved.
Timelab
07/04/2012 - 20:15
Yes, we've discussed the significant updates to the Geneva Seal and they have a very informative website as well: Timelab Seal of Geneva.  I'm referring, though, to those requirements that establish a watch as being of Geneva, as I believe Renaud et Papi is located in Le Locle.  I don't respect this calibre any less because of this new-to-me information, just as I wouldn't denegrate the original 1120 as provided by JLC.  I'm more surprised at my erroneous impression that it was a manufacture movement. I guess the larger issue is of what value are these differences given the reality of Swiss watch manufacturing?  Brand distinctions may be useful marketing tools, but the reality of the industry is much more collaborative.
There is a partnership between VC and AP for these 2 historic
07/04/2012 - 20:21
Calibers that they have been sharing.
Machining vs assembly? What is important? Is it having the machines to
07/04/2012 - 19:48
cut and mill or the watchmakers to finish, assemble and regulate?
component suppliers
07/04/2012 - 21:21
LOL, I recall generating a bit of flak from those who worship The Manufacture Jaeger-LeCoultre by suggesting they were component suppliers to V&C angel.
WOW you're bad :-)
07/04/2012 - 21:56
VC
Ouch! :-)
07/05/2012 - 01:20
B
Re: Machining vs assembly? What is important? Is it having the machines to
07/05/2012 - 03:50
I think this is a no-brainer. Most of the manufactures use CNC equipment for their parts; the only difference being the origin of the machine (Swiss, German, Korean or Japanese). Other methods include spark-erosion, high-pression pico droplets of water for cutting or molecular layering (the latter two being more common in the aircraft manufacturing industry. But the parts come out looking like those plastic airplane model parts. I have before and after pics from VC, Blancpain, JLC, PP and Chopard and even Philippe Dufour. And all the parts look quite similar. But its the hand work that makes the difference. These parts have to be finished so they not only look good but weigh the right amount and are properly balanced. Getting an ebauche from one company isn't that much different than manufacturing the raw parts themselves. The mechanism will be disassembled and completely refinished and or redone before final assembly. And that final assembly is an additional challenge.
you are a bit of a devil in a sheep's skin, dean ;-0
07/05/2012 - 00:44
devil
Re: Is the Cal. 1120 really in-house?
07/05/2012 - 14:40
I thought the historical development of the 1120/2120 in collaboration among VC, AP, and JLC, and the subsequent passage of the IP rights, was pretty well known. As someone who owns two examples (AP EOT and VC Malte Squelette), I can say that both embodiments are fantastic! Best, Gary
Trade sites?
07/05/2012 - 17:33
Hi Gary!  I'm reminded of your earlier post showing the parts kit from Victorin Piguet, awaiting final finishing and assembly heart. I must keep more up-to-date on current developments as the collaboration between AP and VC for the re-designed 1120 / 2120 movement caught me by surprise blush.  Can you suggest any sites that provide more of this trade information?
Re: Trade sites?
07/08/2012 - 21:22
Doesn't AP own the rights, tooling, and equipment for the 2120 and 2003?  That was part of the deal with Richemont when AP sold them their 40-ish percent interest in JLC, right?   ps - the 212x might be the best 360˚ rotor ultra-thin automatic ever made..... [IMG]http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/ulackfocus2/IMG_4387-1.jpg[/IMG] ....but it's not as thin overall as a watch with the 2003. [IMG]http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/ulackfocus2/IMG_4637-1-1.jpg[/IMG]
Pictures?
07/08/2012 - 21:24
Why don't the Photobucket links work?
HTML links don't work, you can post directly by clicking
07/09/2012 - 11:06
on the icon to the right of the icon which looks like a film
Fixed Links
07/10/2012 - 02:41
The links will work if you remove the /IMG from the end.  It's an HTML tag that should not have been part of the link.http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/ulackfocus2/IMG_4387-1.jpghttp://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr303/ulackfocus2/IMG_4637-1-1.jpg
AP got the tooling for Cal 2120 in the Richemont/JLC deal but
07/09/2012 - 17:59
not for the 1003/2003