Can you help? Turnograph?

I just purchased the "Turnograph"...But I have never seen this model before!
Case has ref 4870..Ca 1019/2 21 J. screw back
Dial is magnificient w/o date..
Is this a correct watch...worried member!!
ThanksCan you help? Turnograph?
Re: Can you help? Turnograph?
09/07/2009 - 06:39
Hi, I'm not a Turnograph expert but I recall that only 100 were made.  I believe they all had 1072/1 in them though, so the 1019 in your new watch sounds suspicious to me. The dial looks like an authentic VC, but I thought the Turnograph used different, wider, hands.  I'm also not too sure about the crown. Best case, the watch may be authentic.  Worst case, the watch may be a Franken (using authentic VC components but assembled together to create a watch that did not originally leave the VC Manufacture in this configuration). I know there are others that are more knowledgeable and actually own the Turnograph, I'm sure they will give you their thoughts as well.  I've looked at a Turnograph recently but don't have the funds right now to seriously consider it. I think you can provide VC's Heritage Dept. with your watch's movement and case number in order to provide the most basic information about whether they were originally paired together by VC. Best Regards, Dan
I'll echo Dan's concerns....
09/07/2009 - 07:44
The parts look legitimate, but the complete watch just feels incorrect to me. As Dan suggested, contact VC with the numbers to verify authenticity. Bill
Re: I'll echo Dan's concerns....
09/07/2009 - 16:37
thanks all for your replies.. I faxed VC with details, hopefully they will reply promptly.. What is a bit hard to understand is that the case is only for a bezel like turnograph and I would assume that this model is earlier (serial # much earlier) than the dated Turnograph. Anyway will keep you all posted on the investigation.  Brian
Sorry but it's a Franken...
09/07/2009 - 19:58
What you appear to have is a Ref. 4870, which was a 36mm screwback case with caliber 1019 automatic movement.  The case shape of the 4870 was very similar to the 6782 TBird so I'm not sure if you have a TBird bezel on a 4870 case or a TBird case with a 4870 screwback.  Either way, you have the hands, movement and probably the dial of the 4870. Ref. 4870 courtesy of Antiquorum
Ref 6782 T-Bird Variations
09/07/2009 - 20:24
The Ref 6782 came in an astounding number of variations, including two different case shapes, three different styles of hands, and an unknown number of dials.  Without exception, however, all had the cal 1072 automatic movement and featured a date window at 3 o'clock, along with the iconic rotating bezel.  I have a small database of case numbers which range from 445xxx to 485xxx.  The production number of "fewer than 100" examples was given by Antiquorum in their listing for lots 29 and 30 of the Quarter Millennium catalog.  All pictures courtesy of Antiquorum
Re: Ref 6782 T-Bird Variations
09/07/2009 - 23:18
Thanks so much for your research and comments.. I believe now, that your last comments are probably true,as the t-bird case would be the only one that could have the bezel. And all other items are froma 4870... I expect Vacheron will enlighten me shortly.. . Again Thanks.....
T-Bird Dates
09/07/2009 - 23:23
I really wish we had an "edit" function for our posts, but until then I'll just keep adding responses... After looking over my database on the Ref 6782, I can provide better range of dates and case numbers.  The earliest listing I have is for 1966 tonneau-shaped case #423xxx, while the first teardrop lug example that I have is case #425xxx, year nk.  The latest date is for tonneau case #472xxx from 1972 (Quarter Millennium sale). But here is the own Ref 6782 has case #485xxx yet date of manufacture has been confirmed by the Heritage Dept as 1970!  Once again the wonderful world of Vacheron provides exceptions to all rules .  What I speculate is that cases were made in larger batches but only assembled in small series as demand/orders required, and the cases were not always taken from inventory in numerical order.
Re: T-Bird Dates
09/08/2009 - 11:56
Thanks....I am now a "Turnograph" expert !!.. WE all came up with the same idea.. The watch has a Turnograph case, the case back, movement from 4870 and the wonderful dial could be from earlier model...All authentic but a bad marriage! Vacheron heritage was very helpful and gave me details almost immediately..Thanks much and of course thanks The Hour Lounge: Thanks all.. Brian..