A continuous toppic: when will V&C support its vintage watches

through Auctions ???

How comme such a terrible treatment between PP and V&C ?

Since or because of V&C aution in 2005, the values of V&C watches, has drop continuousely...

What are your thoughts ?

Do we need to sell our beautiful 453, 454, 1007, 1007, 493, etc ....

This is a subliminal message to Mr Torres and Mr Ruppert..

All the best to my fellow loungers,

WSJ article 29/4 Watch Auctions: Time Honored With their mysti
05/05/2010 - 13:04

With their mystique, brands like Patek Philippe can command hundreds of thousands of dollars at watch auctions  Vacheron Constantin and Omega, whose prices generally lag behind those of Patek and Rolex, respectively, have both organized high-profile single-brand auctions in recent years. “These auctions got a lot of publicity for the brands,” prominent Miami dealer Massimo Barracca says. “But you do not change the market with one auction. You need to do it for 20 years like Patek Philippe is, always trying to buy watches for its museum. You have to always give support to the collectors.” Courtesy WSJ - 29/4

"you do not change the market with one auction. You need to do it for
05/05/2010 - 13:52
20 years like Patek Philippe"   I agree with this. Yo On the other hand why do we want prices of VC to go up? To comfort us in our choices? To make the value of our watch collection to rise? The downside to raising prices is that we would end up paying higher prices for our watches. However I do agree that VC has not had a consistent policy, prices went up in 2003-2005 when the brand was buying pieces for its museum but the brand considers that it is not their job to support the vintage market. here's an excerpt from Charly Torres' interview published on the Lounge in Dec 2009:What is your position on supporting vintage market prices? That’s not our job! We are not going to replace the collector, prices of our watches reflect the market and are not artificially inflated and we want to keep it that way. Yes but doing so can also be beneficial in terms of image. Of course but once again what does the brand and the collectors gain in having artificially inflated prices? Imagine what will happen to a brand who decides to stop or is incapable of further supporting the vintage watch market. It can only have an immense adverse effect.
I understand what Charly is saying...
05/05/2010 - 18:08
I can understand why VC feels manufacturers should be involved in the vintage market.  I'm torn as I like being able to pick up vintage pieces at reasonable prices AND wouldn't mind if they appreciated nicely in value (though that is definitely not a deciding factor for my collecting VCs, and only VCs). I do wonder if there is any correlation between "success" in promoting the vintage market with success of the market for new watches?  If it does, then should it be considered one of the "marketing weapons" in the arsenal used to develop the market for the existing and future collection of watches?  Again, if it does - then it would not be desirable to stop and actually become more capable of supporting the vintage market in the longer term (these types of circles/cycles - are the vicious or vital?) Only time will tell if the current marketing strategy will succeed...and VC has the longest time and story. Best Regards, Dan
the vintage market is not the problem, VC's communication strategy is!
05/05/2010 - 16:48

I'm surprised to see a brand with such amazing watches incapable of having a consistent and modern communication strategy. Don't get me wrong, I love the brand and my beloved Malte Chrono excellence platinum is my daily wearer but the brand only communicates on how old it is, not on how good its watches are, or that they have state of the art facilities, or 21c designs or God knows what...just because you're old doesn't make you the best. OK let'ss consider that the brand wants to keep communicating on this, then why the hell don't they pack up a selection of their iconic pieces from the past 250 years and do a world tour and show their craftsmanship and designs to the world?  If collectors are not buying vintage VC's its because there is no litterature and the brand doesn't do anything to "educate" the collector on their vintage pieces and if you don't know much about a brand then you just don't buy watches from them. If VC would be even more open I'm sure they would become a much more serious contender for PP. On a side note I'm not a fan of vintage watches in general.

You've made some good points
05/05/2010 - 18:31
For the 99.999% of watch buyers in the world that are not Loungers:  how would you learn about the brand, history and watches of VC if VC doesn't communicate it effectively enough? If somebody doesn't understand what VC has done throughout its glorious history, how it has affected the industry through the wealth of innovation, diversity and quality of craftsmenship - then what the point of advertising how old you are?  Being this old and always competing at the highest levels, in and of itself, is quite an amazing business accomplishment.  But it isn't enough to be a true marketing communications strategy. Now if the learnings of the past 255 years have: 1. Brought tangible value to the art and science of watchmaking, 2. Can be shown through the years (think vintage), and 3. Culminate in the masterpieces of today, then that might be something that would attract the interest of the not-yet-Vacheronistas out there? BR, Dan
That April 2005 VC Auction
05/05/2010 - 23:58

I recall the contents of that auction as being unique and tres rare, hence lofty prices.  Also from what I have heard, Basel World took place possibly contemporaneously and alot of people took interest in the auction  adding further to the demand. I would say that over the past several years, the quality of vintage time-only VC pieces offered at the big auctions has not been as good as it was mid-decade. Pricing wise, on excellent time-only vintage pieces 1940-1960 I don't believe there has been a deterioration but price appreciation has been modest.  Robert