Doc has a question since 10 years!

The simple (?) question, it's not, and all know.

How do you act when you buy a Vacheron Constantin?
I bought more than 100 V&C's, so I have done some very bad deals....and some brilliantcool
I have  thought about this many, many times,
not least how I would have your answers presented to me!

First I thought of a list, like, authorized dealer,
wellknown vintage dealer,
etc etc

But I want your own personal versions in short posts.

" the last one I bought from a friend at THL"
" saw a cheap one at Ebay - -and won"
" went to wellknown firm 'Serious Dealers of V&C since 1923' "
" from a friend"
" I switched with X"

You get the point.

I have an idea. Yeah, you know Doc, he always has one, but this is very, very safe,
and it's the dream version how I would buy a vintage/second hand VC laugh

Without waiting a month in more or less worry....

So please, all of you write some short lines .It will be for the best of all of us!

Of course it will be discussed on this forum with all friends and your inputs!

This is a I believe, a very important thing, perhaps the most important of all,
that could guarantee and help us all, not least to save a lot of money,
now the profit goes outside your conrtol, and you know often nothing
about the interests of the man you buy from!

Waiting eagerly


Re: Doc has a question since 10 years!
08/04/2012 - 21:09
Hi Doc ! I may not be a good example - i bought only three Vacheron so far, all vintage (V&C). I prefer to buy from well-established dealers, with a shop if possible. I usually use chrono24 at start, as it allows access to a lot of professional dealers and to have an idea of how many years they are in business. I bought my first watch while on a business trip to Berlin and went to the dealer to see myself the watch and inspect the mechanism. The next i bought remotely, but with looking in details at the photos and checking the references (many thanks to Alex again). I also sometimes ask advice (thank you Dean).
Hi Doc, I'm not 100% sure I understand your question
08/05/2012 - 07:11
"How do you act when you buy a Vacheron Constantin?"  Do you mean how do I feel when I buy a VC or where do I buy my VCs from? If it is how do I feel when I buy a VC - always EXTEMELY EXCITED, laugh Where have I bought my VCs:  1. New watches - through either Authorized Dealers or directly from VC Boutiques. 2. Vintage watches (the large majority of my small collection) - through:     A. Online dealers (least happy experiences)     B. E-Bay (generally done OK, but have to sift through a lot of junk to find a real deal)     C. Trusted friends/collectors (best, most consistently, pleasant experiences)     D. Watch Auction Houses (reasonably satisfied) I hope this answers your question?  What has been your experience? Best Regards, Dan
Dan you bought one I know of, from a friend!
08/09/2012 - 18:00
Hope you were satisfied smiley I'm with you, in your experiences  to 100%. My idea is change that! I'll need you Dan as all other Loungers to do this. I'm 100% sure it will work! As you understand I'm only going on 50% right now, but ig God or anyone else will....We do this together! Doc
Re: Doc has a question since 10 years!
08/05/2012 - 16:14
Hello, Doc-        I just recently bought my first one, and purchased it through eBay. Buyer beware, however, I consistantly see mis-labeled watches, pocket pieces turned into wristwatches with an aftermarket case, and other pieces that give me a great deal of pause.         I'd imagine, if funds permit, an AD, exchange with a friend, or any face to face transaction would be most likely a safer means of procuring one of these prestegious pieces.         But, for those of us on a tight watch-collecting budget, options become more limited.        Just be careful of eBay. More Franken-watches with VC then many other brands on eBay.
Come on friends
08/05/2012 - 22:51
this is the most important of ALL posts I made! Not for me - but  for you! Doc
Think I've done it all over the years of collecting VCs
08/05/2012 - 23:38
Just as Dan has done with his vintage purchases I have also used all those sources to acquire modern VC creations. AD - very pleasent and most secure way to buy Online dealers - have always done a careful research on the seller and been lucky Auction houses - did an online bidding and then even had a friend pick up a watch from an auction house in Singapore and bring it back home eBay/chrono - a thorough investigation on the seller always guarantees a safe and successful transaction Collectors friends - have used friends' help during the hunt on many occasions, it has always been a great experience All in all, my lasy transaction involving a VC was with an authorized Dealer and it couldn't have been any better...
Hi Doc, really nice to have you around asking your thought
08/06/2012 - 01:27
Provoking questions! I stuck my answer to Radek and Dan's as the answer is very similar. New purchases are only my favorite AD and vintage is all over (except eBay, too many bad stories out here in the Wild West).. The one rule on all purchases that I live by from you and Alex, "buy the seller!" There have been many watches that have been passed over due to strange, nasty or nervous sellers. There have also been long time friends made from watch purchases or near misses, some really great people out there too. Take good care, Tim
Tim, I'm glad your in!
08/09/2012 - 18:18
I answered both the friends you refer to, same goes for you! Together we will do this! Doc
Radek, my dear friend!
08/09/2012 - 18:16
You have done as I ! When Antiquorum was the working Auctionhouse, I bought from CHF, USA, UK, Hong Kong through them. Then Christie's and Sotheby's walked in and the market became a totatlly new one. I bought jewelry and art from the both latest firme for 15 years. Even big sculptures, which costed hardly  more in shipping than hammer price! From  Sotheby's in London but also the reverse But we both, like all has done some dubious businesss at dealers, for example ebay or other 'online companies' That's what I want to erase inside the Lounger family ! Doc
08/06/2012 - 03:54
Hi Doc, Thanks for this interesting question. My personal version in short is: "I only buy new from AD. For vintage its only been through purists, which so far has been great". And now the longer (more accurate) answer:    Your question got me thinking and considering my approach to acquiring pieces. To be honest, it would be great if the simple response above summed my view on this nicely but its a complicated question for me as I have been grappling with wether I should be more flexible and start to seriously consider vintage or stick to my my route so far: buying only new. Ho do I act when buying a VC (V&C)? To be honest, I use the same approach for VC as I do for any other timepiece I purchase. So far, my only route for acquiring pieces for myself has been purchasing new and from an AD (preferably sealed). Admittedly my group of timepieces is fairly small and I take quite a long time to decide on a purchase (and have missed quite a few opportunities come to think of it), but I try to ensure that my purchases are not made in a moment of 'madness/passion' but, rather, are well thought-through and that I not only like a piece, but absolutely 'love' it - with each piece representing something unique or special about its manufacturer. I usually use Purists,THL, chrono24 and a few other websites to gauge perceptions, views, experiences, and of course 2nd hand value of a piece before I pull the proverbial trigger. That way I know full-well the quality, history of development, creative trajectory of a piece (basically how it came about, its development concept, and whether it is true to a manufacturer's DNA and history), other people's experiences with a piece, and any concerns with a piece - Purists and THL reviews are great for these aspects. As for sales aggregators such as chrono24 and various collectors's markets on the different forums, I use these to gauge a price range so that I get an idea into what would be a good deal when I purchase new - I have never paid 'official retail price' and in most cases got fantastic deals from ADs.  That said, I am an odd one in that I like to be the first owner so that every scratch and ding is part of my adventure (or relationship) with a particular piece - of course, with two rules: no polishing when they go to the spa and any piece that joins never leaves. The only vintage I have is passed down within the family and have sentimental value/significance; so I have no experience in purchasing for myself in that field - sadly none are V&C. Of course, there are many amazing vintage pieces that I would love to own from V&C such as a vintage Cal 1003 or, my absolute favourite vintage V&C, a 1960s ref 6694 Cal 1072 wg Chronometre Royal with batman lugs; hence the questioning of my approach for some time. But for now, my preference is for a timepiece to age with me and with the exception of family heirlooms I steer clear of vintage (I guess I am one of the few who is not so much concerned about being conned by a franken or a fake as I feel quite confident in identifying pieces of interest; my concern is the narrative that I create alongside a timepiece and thanks to the historiques line VC is certainly on track to solve my dilemma laugh). Admittedly, I have acted on behalf of some friends in acquiring vintage pieces, and in those cases I've only done it through Purists and have been more than happy with the experience. I guess as a number of people have said it here many times: you buy the seller. And through that process I have become acquinted with many interesting and great people.  Of course, I am fairly young in terms of seriously being interested in timepieces (age and disposabal incoming were the main barriers for me in this regard as I have been fascinated with timepieces since I was really young but only since a couple of years ago have I been able to properly make headway) so I have a lot to learn and over time things and views undoubtedly change... Ask me again ten years from now and we shall see. But one thing is for certain, and it is somehting I always find myself reminding friends when buying a timepiece: if its too good to be true it usually isn't.  Hope this helps, and I look forward to reading what other loungers' sentiments are on acquiring pieces. Best, Walid ps: Alex, feel free to remove any particular references to websites or forums if their mention is not in-line with THL policy - and for that I apologise in advance.
For you, Walid
08/06/2012 - 20:11
08/06/2012 - 21:50
Now that is what i call 'mint'. Looks like you just picked it off the production line! Here's to hoping for a historiques rendition of this beauty. Thanks Dean! Best, Walid
that Batman is killing me !!!
08/07/2012 - 14:06
And for me also I do hope!
08/09/2012 - 18:25
I refer to the answer to Walid! Dean I always take your words very serious, and it's a beauty, when I take a time out. I have some pain... Cheers Doc
Re: hmm...
08/09/2012 - 18:22
I'm to exhausted now, to handle your 'heavy' letter. You of course get an answer. But wait some hours or perhaps a day! Your friend Doc
the latest VC has an interesting twist
08/06/2012 - 11:22
This extremely rare Ref 4725 came up for auction an few years ago at Christie's. It turned out that a fellow Lounger was also interested in the watch. To avoid the price goind through the roof we decided not to bid against eachother, I decided not to bid under the condition that if he won the auction and ever decided to sell the watch I would have a right of first refusal.Last year he decided to sell and i have been wearing it proudly ever since :-)
Re: the latest VC has an interesting twist
08/06/2012 - 15:25
That dial is heavenly. Your eye seems to be first drawn to the lugs, but I have to say, the dial is what makes the watch for me.
Agree the guilloche work on the dial is just amazing
08/06/2012 - 15:35
interestingly the case is 38mm which was huge for the time (1950s) The case is also the one which inspired the Marcator 40 years later
I'm curious
08/06/2012 - 20:16
as to where you're going with this Doc; perhaps a THL marketplace?  I'm sure you already know that as far as vintage V&C goes, you gets 'em where you finds ' other words I'll take a desirable piece from any source.  This IMHO makes verifying authenticity and originality a key part of the decision, and I'll go through those steps regardless of who the source is.  Let's face it, even the major auction houses don't always get it right.  My last few acquisitions have been a mix of trades, online dealers, and and online auctions.
a sales section won't happen either here or on the Club! I tried but
08/07/2012 - 11:29
legal team doesn't want VC to be held in anyway responsible if a deal goes sour
I'd also be concerned...
08/07/2012 - 19:00
that mixing business with pleasure in the Lounge can change the atmosphere.  Purists provides a good venue for commerce, while PM's and email connect us offline.
08/09/2012 - 21:55
Old story we all know that's  that's finito. Discussion buried two years ago. Dean pre-senile?   I thought it was only old doc! This IS for our own sake. Come on, or lay down. It's an Olympic Game at this time. Would any one move forward with this thinking. It must be safe, Doc (!) is not to trust... COME ON. be constructive. I'm having a lot of pain still writing to my Lounger friends. STILL not an idea from you - only questions. I could be buried with the idea or make good money at any other place. That's it  Sorry Dean, it should have been out in the thread, but you can anyway take some of it smiley Doc
Sorry Doc, I don't have the energy
08/12/2012 - 02:05
for a guessing-game blush.  I'm a straight-ahead fellow, just say what you mean!!