How do you rate manufactures in your book?

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Do you, fellow Loungers, comply with this standard manufactures pyramid?

How do you rate manufactures in your book?

I'd make some changes here...
Who is tops and flops in your opinion?

Re: How do you rate manufactures in your book?
10/25/2008 - 20:58
Just time for a few changes at the top, based on what I saw on a tour 2 years ago. Lange VC Chopard (LUC especially) AP PP Breguet, IWC, Blancpain GP, Zenith Rolex is 2nd tier My 2cents worth JB
Top tier too crowded....
10/25/2008 - 21:36
Yes to Patek, VC, Audemars, Breguet, Blancpain, Lange then add a few of the smaller ateliers like Andersen, Dubuis, Journe and others I forget at the moment.  I'd suggest Nardin, Perregaux, Chopard and some others straddle the line between first and second tier due to the spread between their normal and haute lines. Of course, Radek, this thread is guaranteed to create controversy
changes on the summit...
10/26/2008 - 00:08

This little pyramid above got me thinking and I realized it was a bit outdated and needed some remodeling.  Here's my rating below:






JLC, IWC, Blancpain

Rolex Unfortunately GP, UN, Zenith get discarded into the lower tier...

Panerai gets upgraded a step up...

I find Dean's comment on independents and other aspiring brands very apt and they should be taken into consideration as they have been in recently (kari voutilainen and journe...) and are known for excquisite timepieces.

Anyway, Dean since Alex posted Ariel's disapproving write up on QdI we are destined to post 'controversial' material here  

manufacture or high horology? Manufacture is a factual
10/26/2008 - 00:37
sate and you don't need a pyramid but a list. On the other hand if the goal is to divide watch brands into categories from high end watchmaking to the lower end its quite subjective.   For me there are way too many brands in the top of the pyramid you posted. My criteria for a high end brand are: - history: the brand started as a high end brand (ie: followed horological excellence from the begining, made complicated watches and fhas movements finished to the nth degree). It is not a brand that has gone high end just the last 5 years for just pure marketing purposes. - global perception: there is a general consensus that the brand is haute horlogerie (believe me once all of us put down in this thread the brands we believe are haute horlogerie only 4-5 will systematically come up) - products: all of the brand's tmepieces have the high horology codes of fine craftsmanship, finish and quality and not only the $50k+ models In my pyramid I would only put VC, PP, Lange and Journe on top!
Perhaps a poll to name top 5? nt
10/26/2008 - 01:39


Re: Perhaps a poll to name top 5? nt
10/26/2008 - 01:59
I agree here is my list without ranking....: Lange & Söhne Patek Philippe Audemars Piguet Vacheron Constantin Jaeger Lecoultre
Re: Re: Perhaps a poll to name top 5? nt
10/26/2008 - 02:15
Well if its only 5, then on the basis of personal experience which includes owning watches from the Manufactures, visits to the Manufacture, quality, finish, design, service, staff (but not marketing hype); then here is my top 5: Vacheron tied with Lange Chopard, (not as strange as it seems) Breguet Audemars Patek Joseph
+1, and a well wdell place for L&S (nt)
10/26/2008 - 19:48
Re: Perhaps a poll to name top 5? nt
10/26/2008 - 03:20
Patek Lange VC AP Chopard LUC Goes to show how little I know! Miki
Re: Perhaps a poll to name top 5?
10/26/2008 - 06:47
Patek Philippe Vacheron Constantin Audemars Piguet F.P. Journe A. Lange & Sohne (honorable mention to Svend Andersen)
Re: Perhaps a poll to name top 5? nt
10/26/2008 - 15:09
I agree with Alex 1) PP 2) Vacheron 3) Lange 4) Journe Difficult for me to say that they are in that order. While PP has IMO some of the best vintage watches (sorry Doc), Vacheron has more of an artistic element and they do push the window in designs, Lange movements are near perfection (love the Lange 1), Journe has created a niche with his twin barrel designs and superb movement finish, sort of in-between production and custom house making only 900 watches a year. With that said LeCoultre was/is one of the great innovators in watch movements and great houses like PP, Vach, & Ap used them. And lets not forget Omega. I believe they have won more time trial than any other watch manufacturer. Plus having one the contact for NASA with the speedmaster with an off the shelf watch...pretty impressive.
Maybe another list....
10/26/2008 - 18:18
for manufacturers that contributed the most to wristwatch horology?  On that list I would certainly include Omega, Rolex and Jaeger-LeCoultre.
Hard for me to include Journe...
10/26/2008 - 18:45
Only because of their entry-level costs thus somewhat limited production. All of that being said: If I were to include Journe, it may be #1 on my list. Miki
An interesting and challenging question Radek...
10/26/2008 - 02:33
As I see it, part iof the challenge is in defining the term "manufacture".  According to some, a true manufacture is a company that makes its own movements but that could exclude brands such as PP and VC as they both use base movements from other producers and then work on them for their watches.  Personally, I think that might be too restrictive as it could then "elevate" a brand that produces 3-5 watches a year to a category that is arguably higher than one including PP and VC. If I were to simply pick the highest quality brands, then I would probably subscribe to much the same criteria as listed by Alex.  I would also include AP and LUC (though with an asterisk as it is part of Chopard).  I must also say that my choices are based almost exclusively on the quality of the brands' men's watches. So my list is (in alphabetical order ): AP FP Journe Lange LUC PP VC Cheers, Duncan
Re: How do you rate manufactures in your book?
10/26/2008 - 03:32
Radek, a great post and one that interests to me. I think with a good bottle of cognac we could debate this subject tonight. Thanks for sharing this information which is up for considerable opinions by our loungers here. Regards, Matt
I once had coffee with South East Asia's CEO of AP
10/26/2008 - 17:25
Mr, Bottineli and he told me about the big 4, Patek Philippe - Vacheron Constantin - Audemars Piguet - Breguet. I guess coming from his mouth straight, that should mean something.
I don't "get" Breguet
10/26/2008 - 18:20
I know of their deep history but their products seem stuck in a design rut.
Re: I don't "get" Breguet
10/26/2008 - 18:26
Well some of their newer watches, the twin tourbillion and the Marine series is interesting although perhaps not as radical as the QdI. But their manufacturing, hand-work, quality control and esthetics is as good as anyone. IMHO they're right up there with PP and Audemars. JB
+1 on Breguet...
10/26/2008 - 20:00
My wife has a crush on men's Breguet Marine and she's going to get it soon
+2 on Breguet...
10/27/2008 - 02:20
I'm really impressed with the Breguet chrono marine, and it is at the top of my wish list (right behing a QdI)
Re: How do you rate manufactures in your book?
10/27/2008 - 02:16
I agree with many Loungers: VC, Lange, PP, Breguet, AP, Journe. JLC's work on their ultra-high-end pieces is quite impressive too... CHeers, Francois
This Way
10/28/2008 - 17:03
-Lange is for the moment, the only companies to make Magnificent Watch from the A to the Z of their products, even if i don't like the too classical design. -FP.Journe and Parmigiani, still little but marvellous products, though their design is not my kind. Few choice -Vacheron Constantin is making more and more progress every year and for me is above Patek. They are going their own way with the "métiers d'arts" and the "Quai de l'Ile", really a different position to see beautiful horology. And I love some designs. -Patek is NOT at the top, a lot of industrial work in their production and some litlle things I dislike. But I must admit I love the Nautilus and especially the chrono 5980. The name is the reference but the products are no more but still excellent most of the time. -Glashutte is not far away from Lange, and I prefer GO design to Lange, all nice watch and tremendous chronographs. All the brand above do not have any basic Watch in their products. That's Rare and that's a good performance. After these there are different brands with excellent and average watches in the same brand.. -Chopard and Piaget have very interesting piece, the LUC collection quite beautiful. Too bad they do not have only that. -JLC: a lot of movement of high quality but not the TOP quality. Very Special design sometimes :(. -Breguet, Audemars Piguet, IWC, Blancpain, and Girard Perregaux are not so interesting. Even if some Breguet and Girard Perregaux are quite nice (foudroyante from GP). These brands have very differents products inside their brands, that's a pity. Something I hate: IWC communication -Rolex and Grand Seiko are the best sports Watch no doubt on it.
agree with many of your points (nt)
10/31/2008 - 10:43