Info Required about Patrimony Classique & Traditionalle

Hi All

I'm pretty sure my next watch is going to be a V&C Patrimony.  A simple watch, but something special.

I've narrowed my choices to two Patrimony series in Rose Gold.  The first is the manual wind Patrimony Calssique with Caliber 1400.  The second is the new Patrimony Traditionalle.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the Classique has an exhibition back.  Please let me know if you can confirm this.

In addition while both movements have the Geneva Seal, is the 1400 movement made by V&C or is it sourced from elsewhere.

Unfortunately I cannot see each watch in the metal, so any first hand info would be great.

Well, what do I like about each watch?

If movement viewable thru display back, I prefer the looks of the1400 movement to the 4400 movement
I like the size of the watch 35 mm is a great size for a dress watch.
38 mm is not huge but pushing it.

Love the Dauphin hands.
Prefer hour makers over romaan numerals.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm probably going to spend the next few hours searching the web for more photos

Some thoughts...
10/06/2009 - 12:25

Great choices of watches, of couse it all depends on your tastes and it would really be worthwhile to try to see each in the flesh as to halp make your decision. Meanwhile here are some thoughts:Patrimony ClassiquePros: has the cal 1400 which I love and find to be fantastically finished (it has a display back), I like the opaline dial, the case is very classicalCons: I find 36mm to be too small for today's standardsPatrimony TraditionnellePros: love the case, dial (which has 5 different finish techniques) and size (38mm)Cons: I like the looks of the cal 1400 If I had to make a choice I would go for the Traditionnelle just because of the overall look. I like cal 1400 better aesthetically but then again cal 4400 ain't too shabby either. I find the Trad to me more in its time and better proportioned. Keep us posted on your choice

I echo Alex's thoughts, even though the Classic has the cal
10/06/2009 - 20:56
1400 which I find superior in looks to cal 4400 I still find it too small and prefer the overall look and feel of the Traditional. In the articles section there is an excellent article on cal 4400, it may help you make up your mind.
I don't think there is a prettier sinmple movement than the 1400....
10/06/2009 - 21:53

from any of the brands. The Patrimony Classique wears large due to the very small bezel. That said, were I choosing between the two watches, I would take the Patrimony Traditionnelle becasue I like the case and dial so much more. As much as I like great movements, I actually don't spend much time looking at them compared with the rest of the watch.  Bill

Re: Info Required about Patrimony Classique & Traditionalle
10/07/2009 - 04:49
Thanks for the Replies Although I love the Classique, I had a look at my vintage V&C at 34 mm and thought a new watch at 35 mm might just seem a little too small. On the other hand, I've seen the smaller 37 mm Patek and thought it looked huge on my wrist due to the small bezel size.  I can believe if the Classique has a small bezel things might work out. One problem although is the size of the 1400 caliber.  I had a look at some timezone photos of the Classique and thought the movement looked small in the 35 mm case (although the dial was exquisite).  I can see why V&C doesn't highlight this more. On the otherhand the 4400 fits the 38 mm case perfectly, and yes it is nice, no 1400...  but nice. I still prefer the dial of the Traditionalle. I guess I'm leaning towards the Traditionalle right now.  I just hope it doesn't wear larger than its size. Now speaking to some watch buddies of mine last night, one came out and said that - (Please take no offense) V&C wasn't what it once was (in the 60's) and that I'd be happier with a Patek (at probablly $8,000 more). I've not had the opportunity or have the expertise to compare a new V&C and a comparable new Patek side by side.  I have compared vintage versions and found little difference overall (to my eye). Forgetting (for the moment) about the price difference, would a Traditionalle be so different in quality/finishing from a simple manual wind Patek such as a basic Calatrava or Gondolo. What is really fraustrating is that there is no V&C retailer in Calgary (although there is a Patek retailer), so I have no way to compare. Thanks  Barry
ahhh the famous Patek vs Vacheron debate. I really think
10/07/2009 - 11:28
you should read independent master watchmaker, Kari Voutilainen's comments on cal 4400 click here to read
I really can't see in what way VC finishing is under Patek's, on the
10/07/2009 - 18:09
contrary the VC inhouse movements have to my not too expert eyes one of the nicest finishes amongst the high end Swiss makers
VC and Patek...
10/07/2009 - 18:36
I think what you friend said about VC and Patek might have been true for a time in the 80's and 90's, but I think that VC has come roaring back and is competitive with, and I think better than, any high-end brand today in terms of its technical watchmaking. The introduction of its in-house movements such as the 1400 and 4400 was critical to this success. Bill
Hi Bill
10/07/2009 - 19:11
I certainly agree with you on that. This was a major positive step for VC and reflects their desire to eventually manufacture all their watches with in-house movements. Furthermore, it speaks to the committment of the staff in their "labours of love" in the hand-finishing of these movements. Regards, Joseph
I would go for the Traditionelle...
10/07/2009 - 20:42
all down to personal taste, but in my view it's an easy win for the Traditionelle. I much prefer the look of the dial and case of the Traditionelle, it projects a stronger, more masculine image. And unlike most of my fellow Loungers, I do prefer the 4400 over the 1400 - in fact, if I could, I would purchase from VC the movement on its own (in one of those clear plastic case), just to be able to stare at it all day. Good luck in your decision! Cheers, Francois
Further Thoughts on the Traditionalle
10/08/2009 - 04:07
Hi All Again thank you for your responses. The article about the 4400 has just about made my mind up for me. I do believe my friend may have been a little biased, as he personally loves Patek.  I do own a modern Patek annual calender (5146), but I consider most of the simpler PP watches a little on the boring side.  To be honest if my wife would let me spend more :) I don't think I could find a simple Calatrava I'd prefer over the Traditionalle (the PP 5196 comes close).  I definately prefer the Traditionalle over the Classique now, and will try to free up the means to purchase one recklessly soon. Regards Barry
Good luck in your quest!
10/09/2009 - 02:34
...and please post pictures once it's on your wrist! Cheers, Francois
I still love everything about mine after a year!
10/09/2009 - 03:19