Introducing myself with a few questions

As a new member of this Forum, a few words of presentation may be in order. Trained as an electronic engineer, I've ended up doing research in Neuroscience, which is still the only domain, along with photography, where I've any real competence. Yet, at some point in my life I became fascinated with watches. In all fairness, the fascination was sparkled by two gentelmen named Philippe and Patek, but it wasn't long before it extended to VC. It iwas then to be expeccted that, after spending a full year to find a PP ref 130 that suited both my teste and my pocket, I should now be tempted by the acquisition of a VC 4178. The little research I've done so far makes me suspect that this can be just as difficult and time consuming unless I get some good advice. Here are some of the questions that I would like to ask the connaisseurs. 1) How more difficult is to find a 4178 with an unrestored dial than with a refurbished one? 2) Is the price difference between the two as huge as I found it to be for the PP ref 130?  3) Do different types of numerals impact on the price (I'm fond of Breguet numerals)?

Thanks, and my compliments for the quality of this Forum.

Paolo Viviani
welcome to the Lounge Paolo :-) I am a huge fan of the 4178 and
12/30/2012 - 22:30
If you do some research you'll see a post of mine regarding an original dial 4178. These vintage chronographs are difficult to find but a few show up at auction each year. As with all vintage watches it is difficult to find models with original pristine dials but patience is in order. In terms of price from what I've seen an unrestored dial in good condition can fetch a 30% plus premium. Good luck in your hunt and keep us posted and don't hesitate to share your photographic skills (neuroscience being way out of my league :-) )
Re: welcome to the Lounge Paolo :-) I am a huge fan of the 4178 and
12/31/2012 - 10:47
Dear Alex, thanks for your comments. Actually, I decided to join this Forum when I stumbled across your excellent post on the hystory of VC chronographs. As for your 12.12.12 post, I must confess that it had a rather sobering effect on me  It made me realize how hard would be to lay my hands on such a beatiful piece... My best, Paolo
Re: Introducing myself with a few questions
12/30/2012 - 22:44
Hello Paolo, And welcome to the forum. The 4178 is rare but can be found. They occasionally come up for auction too. Here is a link to a recent thread in which Alex discusses the watch. There are some beautiful pics too. The watch came was made with 2 different movements which only have minor differences Cal. 434 and 492. They were also made in yellow and rose gold. I believe there is a stainless steel version or even a bimetallic one. I have never seen one in white gold. There are also versions with Arabic numbers, Roman numerals and no numerals (just indices). I don't believe the breguet numerals were ever used, but I could be mistaken. There are variations in the dials too as the link mentions. The boutique in New York and the one in Geneva both have examples for sale. They are very expensive but have been completely checked and restored. From the photos it looks as if the dials have been redone but you would have to check with the boutiques to find out for sure. I have seen the one in the NYC Boutique personally. There are a couple of retailers in Europe (Germany and Italy who have examples for sale. Send me a private message and I will provide links. There was one in Barcelona and one in the recent Christies auction in New York but both of those were sold. As far as price is concerned...yes there is a significant difference between the 2 I know about in Europe and the ones Vacheron have for sale but most of that is due to fact that the latter have been completely restored and certified, rather than just the dial itself. Regards, Joseph
Re: Re: Introducing myself with a few questions
12/31/2012 - 10:29
Dear Joseph, thanks for the information and for the Schubert link. Actually, I happen to be very fond of that Liederkreis. I've seen the 4178 that is being offered in Italy, but the general condition of that watch doesn't seem to justify the price they are asking for. On my next trip to Geneva, I will check the piece that VC has in its store. By the way, you have mentioned a photograph of that piece. Do you have a link to that picture? My very best, Paolo
Abschied? Begrüßung!
12/31/2012 - 05:44
Woher kommt?
12/31/2012 - 10:00
Lieber Tick-Talk Woher mein Spitzname kommt? Er war gewählt worden, weil „Abschied“ bei verschiedenen Überschriften von Musikstücke vorkommt, die ich außergewöhnlich liebe (Schumann, Schubert, Mahler). Herzlichen Gruß Paolo
Word Play
01/03/2013 - 18:25
Understood!  I was only making a word play with your username of "goodbye" when you were saying "hello" devil
12/31/2012 - 06:40
"Ade, du muntre du froliche Stadt.... ade" Franz Schubert, (Lyrics, Luwig Rellstab) Schwanengesang (Swansong...Last work), lied #7 Enjoy!
About numerals
12/31/2012 - 17:55
These are vintage catalog pictures that Alex shared some time ago.  You'll see that Breguet numerals are very uncommon with V&C chronographs and I've yet to see them on a Ref 4178.  The options will more likely be with applied markers, Arabics, or Roman numerals...if you even have the choice wink.  I think you will discover that overall cosmetic and mechanical condition will rule as any 4178, regardless of dial configuration, is a rare bird. I was very fond of this two-tone version that has moved on....
Re: Introducing myself with a few questions
01/01/2013 - 07:45
I have been with the forum for a while but have not dared to post anything. I am from Beijing and is a proud owner of a pink gold 4178 from the 40s. The dial has beautiful hard enamel signature and indexes, which they don't make any more.
for a first post that's quite a treat! Welcome to the Lounge Jason!
01/01/2013 - 09:16
Gorgeous! Need more pics!! nt
01/01/2013 - 18:05
That is beautiful Jason!
01/02/2013 - 12:51
And welcome to THL!  Glad to hear you're in Beijing, maybe we can get together some time.  smiley  (I'd love to see that 4178 in person!  heart) Best Regards, Dan
Re: Re: Introducing myself with a few questions
01/02/2013 - 13:07
Thank you all for the warm welcome by the forum veterans. Paolo, 4178 is a great watch to own. The bigger size makes it more suitable for daily wear than pp130.  Dan, great to know you via the forum. I will pm you my contact.