The Maltese Cross

Does any one has the Maltese Cross history on VC and why.

 

thanks jc 

02/09/2017 - 02:33
02/09/2017 - 09:39
Re: The Maltese Cross
02/09/2017 - 09:39

direct from the horses mouth :-)

 

Re: The Maltese Cross

Re: Re: The Maltese Cross
02/10/2017 - 00:34

Thanks, I wonder if it had any religious reason why it was used. It's used widely in many formats including fire fighters.

Re: Re: Re: The Maltese Cross
02/10/2017 - 01:15

Yes; Here is the explanation: "Vacheron Constantin chose this symbol because it represents the shape of the component that fixed to the barrel of its movement, which reduces the amount of wheels necessary for winding."

 

 

From:

https://blog.crownandcaliber.com/story-behind-the-vacheron-constantin-cr...

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Maltese Cross
02/10/2017 - 21:02

Thanks

i wanted a short and to the point answer.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Maltese Cross
02/13/2017 - 23:48

Personally, I was hoping for some mysterious and strong(er) VC connection to the Knights of Malta ... 

We could weave our own tale. If enough folks repeat, it might eventually become folklore.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Maltese Cross
02/18/2017 - 02:50

Yes, thanks great photos. But I believe it's tied to religion. I think the Maltese Cross groom is something like the knights of Columbus. That's what I really want to was vacheron a catholic based on bills comment.

 

thanks jc

Spotted a few Maltese Crosses in Portugal
02/13/2017 - 00:54

Spotted a few Maltese Crosses in Portugal

Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Tick Talk 2017Spotted a few in Portugal

Looks like a great trip Dean! (nt)
02/13/2017 - 04:14
strange not seeing you in the snow :-)
02/14/2017 - 09:31
A Residue of the Wars of Religion in France & Huguenots Escape From Persecution
02/15/2017 - 03:07

Switzerland was a refuge for the Huguenots (French Protestants) during the French Wars of Religion in the 16th Century. The short version is Geneva became the hub of Reform Protestants under Jean Calvin (Calvinsim -- the same inspiration as the American Puritans). Calvin banned all jewelry in the Canton of Geneva, and the refugees who were goldsmiths and jewelry makers turned to watch making, which was both approved and even encouraged by the hard working (some would say fanatical) Calvinists. Here's the Huguenot Flag.

A Residue of the Wars of Religion in France & Huguenots Escape From Persecution

Huguenot Flag

As you can see the center is the Maltese Cross. If you remove the cross and pull in the four fleur de lis, you have the Calatrava Cross, Patek Philippe's symbol.

Re: A Residue of the Wars of Religion in France & Huguenots Escape From Persecution
02/15/2017 - 23:30

Bill. Thats cool and infomative. thanks!!

Re: Re: A Residue of the Wars of Religion in France & Huguenots Escape From Persecution
02/18/2017 - 02:57

Yes so they wer not Catholics ?

so vacheron wanted to include his region. Based on your comment and Bill's.

 

thanks jc 

Re: A Residue of the Wars of Religion in France & Huguenots Escape From Persecution
02/18/2017 - 02:53

You it hit on the dot. I believe tha vacheron was catholic as well. That's what I want to know, the Maltese Cross group is something like the knights of Columbus.

 

thansk jc

Conspiracy theories, beliefs and speculation
02/18/2017 - 05:15

This question has been asked before, search using the word "logo" on THL.  The Maltese Cross was registered in 1880, 105 years after the Brand came into existence.  

The official explanation is as Alex mentioned.  Based on the Geneva Stop Works mechanism inside the movement.  A screenshot from VC's website:

Conspiracy theories, beliefs and speculation

 

Here are links to some older threads about this topic:

http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-discussions/vc-brand-and-order-malta-577386

http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-discussions/can-anyone-answer-doc-556996

http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-discussions/vc-logo-596300

 

For everyone: look at the facts and history...then come up with your own conclusions as you wish.  But please do not convey it as the definitive reason.  We will never know what was really in the minds of the decision makers back in 1880.

 

 

Official Version is just that: A Version; There's No Conspiracy
02/18/2017 - 13:01

Dan,

The Official Version you espouseI does not really takes into account the depth and extent of the culture that arose from the French Wars of Religion. In an earlier missive I pointed out that until 1971, Jesuits were not allowed in certain Swiss cantons--a response to the actions by French kings from the 17th-18th Centuries. During the same period, people took religion far more serious in Western Europe than today. My wife is Catholic, and I have no animus toward Catholics, but there's enough history that indicates they were running the show that led to the mass migrations from France to Switzerland, Germany, Holland, England and other Protestant countries during that period. Likewise, Jean (John) Calvin, the Huguenot leader in Geneva, proclaimed edicts that disallowed the many refugee French goldsmiths and other artisans from making jewelery and so led to the Calvinistic industrously approved manufacture of watches.

Symbols were (and are) powerful, especially, religious ones. They become part of a culture. Today in Geneva (according to a Catholic friend of ours who lives there), you can still see the austere decorations in the Protestant churches, while the Catholic churches are far more celebratory. These too are a residue of the religious scisms.

My comments were neither conspiratorial nor anti-sect or hardly "definitive." I agree with your that we should look at the facts and history, and a sales pamphlet written by some functionary at VC hardly sounds "definitive" or final. I am so happy to have someone running this blog with an open mind.

FWIW Bill
02/18/2017 - 23:42

sharing the same academic skepticism, I also suspect V&C's adoption of the Maltese Cross was a marketing appeal to Catholic nobility of the time, especially those of the Italian States where their market was strongest.

I welcome further debate, but it seems most instructive that within a few years of tradmarking the iconic version of a Maltese Cross, they also trademarked three other Gothic variations of the cross design.  This, logic demands, puts into doubt the legend that it was representative of the Geneva stopworks mechanism.  What parts did the other crosses represent?  Besides, it doesn't really look like a Geneva stopworks, but that is for another discussion wink.

Thank goodness they did not give prominence the other versions, which came to have military associations in 1914.

Re: Official Version is just that: A Version; There's No Conspiracy
02/19/2017 - 02:32

Your information on the history of Switzerland and the Huguenots are the same as I have read in the past.  One cannot deny the region was religious, but your comments about the Offcial Version being just a version...with other alternative versions and reasons.... well don't those beliefs and speculation lead to...??? 

I don't deny there are strong environmental influences, allegories and circumstantial evidence...but that is not conclusive.  Like I said, 105 years after JM Vacheron created his first watch and the Brand...the decision was made to utilize a symbol as the Logo for Vacheron & Constantin.  It resembles the 5-sided Geneva Stopworks component (which was considered a technical achievement at that time) AND obviously takes the shape of the Maltese Cross. 

What percentage of this was due to the technical vs. religious beliefs vs. marketing motivations, I doubt we will ever truly know.  Chances are high that any documentation regarding this, if it still exists, is in the VC archives.  And we all know what VC has to say about the matter as of today.  The rest is...conjecture?

If you read the links I provided, you will see that one of them refers to the author Dan Brown, Knights Templar, etc.  I've read all his books and found them entertaining, now that is some serious conspiracy theory.

Re: Re: Official Version is just that: A Version; There's No Conspiracy
02/19/2017 - 16:37

Thanks to both of you as this has become an exciting argument.

This is such a powerful symbol that is even part of the fire fighter  emblem.

thanks jc 

Re: Conspiracy theories, beliefs and speculation
02/18/2017 - 22:53

Thanks

What I wanted find the Maltese cross, but like said we will never why they use said designed.

this chat is very educational.

 

Re: Conspiracy theories, beliefs and speculation
02/18/2017 - 22:56

Excellent links

i am glad I asked

 

thanks jc