manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?

So There we have it, I bought this pocket watch and I've been trying to find out a bit more about it. The V&C Archive has it as Model: Photo 3612.  I take it that this is becaause that's how the archive photo was annotated, and it's not an actual model name. are there any bright people out there who can help me learn a bit more about it?manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?as you acn see it has an unusual plain crown 

Thats an interesting and colorful art-deco dial!
12/25/2014 - 00:27

Welcome to THL!

Back then, VC did not have model names.  The Reference Numbers are based on the case design and I believe the numbering system originally came from the picture references in VC's archives, just like the one you mentioned.  So your watch could be thought of as a Ref. 3612. 

Did you get an Extract from the Archives?  Is that how you got the Model: Photo 3612 information?

Best Regards, Dan

Re: Thats an interesting and colorful art-deco dial!
12/27/2014 - 14:31

Yes dan, I got the archive extract, and was a little disappointed with the info they provided; as i have previously seen in the-hour-lounge a photo of a page of the V+C archive showing a photo annotated as "photo 3599" or somesuch I guessed that's what was going on with he Arch. Extract that I recieved.

I had previously believed that the watch was contemporary with the engraving of gift to the ain 1952, so was gratefl for info for year of manufacture

lovely
12/25/2014 - 15:10

Perhaps Dean (@TickTalk) will have some guidance. He has pretty extensively catalogued many of these "photo references" pieces from pre-1938. I did not see this one in what he has posted online, but maybe he can offer some research pointers. Love the watch, by the way. May it tick only happy moments for you. 

Re: lovely
12/27/2014 - 14:33

thanks, I shall cyber-search him

 

Re: manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?
12/25/2014 - 17:51

Here is a photo of your watch from "The World of Vacheron Constantin, along with a few others.

Unfortunately the photos are in black and white.

As you can see, several of them had the round markers. The shading on the dials also suggests that the dials had colouring.

It looks like VC used the round markers from the late 1920's (1927) to the late 1930's (1938).

 manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?

3612, last to the right, second row.

 manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?

3812 (1927) and 3816 (1938) also have round markers.

 manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?

In this image, from "The Art of Vacheron Constantin" the Antiquorum sale from 1994, the watch on the right has the same case but a slightly different dial. It is from 1937, and the movement S/N is close to the one above from 1936. (check the S/N on yours!)

Here is the description:

 manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?

Im sure yours has the same movement.

Hope this info helps.

JB

Well spotted, Joseph
12/26/2014 - 17:24

Our OP should indeed be chuffed that his piece is featured in the photo reference pages of that essential reference book!  Notice the Birks watch in the same series?  I think they all shared the same 17-ligne movement which, at 12/12 or 2.25 mm thickness, should be considered an extra-thin caliber.  LOL, I suppose the copywriter for Antiquorum wasn't too familar with V&C history as they apparently didn't recognize EER as V&C's American distributor and not the end customer, although this also gives us a clue (along with the Birks watch) that this series of six watches were destined for the North American market.

I would love to know if this watch has the same movement nr. 260846?

Re: Well spotted, Joseph
12/26/2014 - 21:10

Thanks Dean.

The poor reproductions of the movements at the end of the book are not very helpful, but the ones up to 1938 look similar and probably had minor differences.

As you know the movements and cases were generally not made at the same time and could have been mated years apart. Thus the more than 10 year span in the similar designed watches.

The cases and movements were likely mated when orders came in.

Only knowing the s/n's of the watch and checking the archives will produce further enlightenment.

Happy Holidays,

Joseph

Re: Well spotted, Joseph
12/27/2014 - 14:54

the photo marked 3612 does look very much exact, but the pencil annotad case s/n ends 846, mine actually ends 847. the photo 3613 seems to have the same S/N attributed in pencil, or is that just my screen being irracible?

Mvt No. is 411177 which y archive extract describes as RA 16/17" 14/12

anyone would describe it as ultraslim i think

 

thanks for sharing a movement pic
12/27/2014 - 16:04

Niceyes.  Looks like the duplicate serial number in the photo reference was crossed out but the correct one was not recorded.  As your case number is sequential to the one recorded under ref. 3612, we know at least a small series was produced.  FWIW, the fractional designation following the caliber is an indication of movement thickness.  12/12 is one ligne and 14/12 is one and one/sixth lignes or 2.6 mm.  Althogh there can be much debate on the terms used, "ultra" slim/thin is usually reserved for those under 2 mm like the amazing 5/12 caliber from 1931.

I once had a PW with movement just a few numbers off yours as well.  Click here for a peek: http://www.thehourlounge.com/en/vacheron-constantin-discussions/vc-and-great-depression-part-iii-574063

Re: thanks for sharing a movement pic
12/27/2014 - 18:27

Actually it was that article that drew me to The HourLounge whilst trying to search info on mine, so thanks twice

Re: Re: Well spotted, Joseph
12/27/2014 - 17:17

Thanks for the movement image. Very nice , indeed.

I looked at the numbering of the 6 watches on a large hi-res monitor. The annotations were made by the same hand ( on the images, but a different hand on the numbering ( ie 3612, 3613 etc.)

I also looked at it in the book with a magnifying glass. It looks, at least to me, that the s/n on the 3613 is actually 260358, based on the appearance of the other "3", "6" and "8" in the notations of the other watches.

Congrats on the watch. AFAIK, coloured dials are very uncommon.

Regards,

Joseph

Re: Re: Re: Well spotted, Joseph
12/27/2014 - 18:07

AFAIK???? lorks-a-lummy , I cannot even guess what that might mean!!

LOL is all i can mnage, would you mind explaining, thanks

:)

 

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well spotted, Joseph
12/27/2014 - 18:50

It means "As Far As I Know" :-)

Re: manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?
12/27/2014 - 18:24

Another odd thing, as I mentioned elsewhere, there is a gift dedication engraved to the back, dated 1952, to a Peer of the Realm (Viscount)) as a christening present, but given the time between manufacture and dedication of c25 years I can't help wondering if it had not been owned by his father beforehand, although England was at war with Germany from 1939, so maybe it was in a jewellers cabinet for all that time.

Not exactly a technical matter, but it has me intrigued

Re: Re: manufactured 1936, anyone seen a similar dial?what can you tell me?
12/27/2014 - 18:53

You can check with Alex Ghotbi, the Moderator.

I believe the Archives might show the original purchaser; but it might only be the retailer.