Patrimony Contemporaine 81180 vs Overseas 47040

Good day my fellow loungers.

I am considering letting go of my 49140 Overseas and looking at the possibility of replacing it with either a Patrimony 81180 or an Overseas 4704.

The reason for this was despite me loving the 49140, is I LOVE the look of the overseas on a leather strap. I've seen what the 4704 looks like on a leather strap and I love the look. In addition to this the bracelet on the 4704 is fantastic and I've heard many call it, the best bracelet on a watch period, high praise indeed. The problem is when you get to this level, you get within the price range of the Patrimony 81180....

The 81180 (18kt WG) has the advantage of having the geneva seal and an in-house Vacheron movement. I do think that the Patrimony will be slightly limited in terms of wear (i.e dress only) where the overseas is a great all rounder and with a leather strap can be worn as a 'dressy' watch. One of the other reasons I am drawn to the Patrimony is that it is essentially what Vacheron are famous for, dress watches. I have a JLC Master Ultra Thin Reserve de Marche as my 'dress watch' and Rolex GMT II and Speedy Pro are my daily wearers (along with the 49140). If I were to get the Overseas I would definately keep the other three however if I went for the Patrimony I'd most likely sell the JLC but keep both the GMT II and Speedy Pro.

The 4704 wears nicely on me, however the 81180 to my eyes wears very large (maybe because the dial is big). Pictures below of my wrist wearing the patrimony and overseas on bracelet and with a strap (gold version). If I go for the overseas I will have both the bracelet and the leather strap (purchase with bracelet and buy the strap after).

I actually conversed with people in both the New Bond St boutique and in the Watch Gallery regarding the Overseas movement. When stating it has a JLC base they both challenged me stating it was all Vacheron. The watch gallery salesperson was adamant that this Overseas was 100% in house and 100% vacheron. The VC boutique salesperson was explaining that the reason the overseas doesn't have the geneva seal is that it's built in a different factory outside of geneva, but again when I questioned the movement origins which I am 99% sure are JLC, he simply stated, it's 100% Vacheron. A quick visual check of the cal 1226 and to me that definately looks like a modifued JLC movement.

Any thoughts?

TESSST 

TESSST 

 

TESSST TESSSTTESSST

 

Hi, I will try and answer your questions: Yes, the Patrimomy
09/18/2014 - 17:20

is more dressy and will always get less wrist time than the OS.

If you are considering the Patrimony (it is no longer called Contemporaine), then you might also want to consider the Traditionelle (this is no longer a Patrimony). There are three versions:

87172 with caliber 2455. This is automatic with seconds subdial at 9 and date at 3. Transparent caseback. 

82172 with caliber 4400. This is manual winding with seconds subdial at 6. Transparent caseback. (I have this one in PG).

43075 with caliber 1120. Automatic with legendary caliber 1120 (not 'exactly' in-house but with Geneva Seal). Transparent caseback. This is a pricey watch compared to above two.

Overseas: 

47040 with caliber 1226 - caliber is from Piguet. Time only with date.

49150 with caliber 1137 - caliber is from Piguet. Chronograph.

47450 with caliber 1222 SC - caliber is from JLC. Dual time.

VC does not claim that these movements are in-house. Piguet is a historical movement maker which has supplied movements to the greatest of brands for decades, including VC, PP, AP, etc. It was acquired by the Swatch Group and is now Manufacture Blancpain.  But they still supply the two movements to VC (I think in kit form) where VC applies its legendary finishing.  VC does not apply the Geneva Seal movements that come from outside, but that does not mean that they are any less.  These are very reliable proven movements and they go through the same finishing process as any other VC movement.  Infact, they are made in the same 'production line' in their workshops. I have seen this myself.  JLC has been supplying movements to VC since a long time, and currently they supply the caliber for the Dual Time.  There was a time when VC / JLC were the same company.  JLC has also supplied movement to PP and AP.  Again, when VC is done with the finishing, it is even better than what JLC puts in their own watches.  The same is true for the Lemania chronograph for VC. Lemania, which is now Manufacture Breguet, supplies these movements. When VC is done with it, it is one of the most beautiful chronograph movements in the world. 

VC is trying to go 100% in-house, and they are very close to thst goal.  However, VC's chariman - Mr. Torres - has clearly said that even when VC has their own in-house chronograph (hopefully soon), they will still have a model using the Lemania. This is VC caliber 1141.

Please keep in mind that retailers / salespersons have little clue as to what they are selling.  Very rarely do you find someone with actual knowledge and honesty.  the likes of the Loungers here are the perfect nightmare for any watch retail establishment / AD, because they know much much more.

Whether you choose the Patrimony's with GS or an OS, you cannot go wrong either way.

Good Luck.

If I have made any factual mistakes etc., Loungers please correct me.

 

 

 

Re: Hi, I will try and answer your questions: Yes, the Patrimomy
09/18/2014 - 22:01

Thanks for the reply. I am adamant the overseas movement is based on the jlc cal 899. Anyone able to comment? I have no problem with this as Vacheron do what they need to do, but I found it slightly frustrating the salespeople were claiming it was in house.

The movement of the Overseas Dual time is based on the JLC 899. Salespeople
09/19/2014 - 03:13

Are usually like this. They are not lying, they just do not know. More salespeople are like this the. Also VC is a very rare and low volume brand and hence it Is less of a priority for the salespeople as they sell a lot less compared to other brands.  I have faced this with VC's in top retail establishments in different countries.

JLC has provided movements to other brands since a long time. VC continues to receive from JLC PIguet and Lemani until they have their own in-house answer which they are working on. In the past watchmaking was all about receiving base movements from elsewhere and adding things to it and applying their own finishing. This might be last chance to buy a piece using that old world romantic notion.

small correction, Cal 1226 is in fact based on JLC not Piguet
09/19/2014 - 09:08

.

Thanks for correction Alex. Apologise for my mistake. So only
09/19/2014 - 19:15

1137 is Piguet based?

Difficult to compare apples and oranges but I would say go
09/19/2014 - 09:13

with the watch that puts the greater smile on your face when you see it.

The RG Overseas could be a good mix of a sporty look but still dressy as it is on strap. FWIW the Patrimony doesn't look big on your wrist.

 

 

 

Re: Difficult to compare apples and oranges but I would say go
09/20/2014 - 14:37

Agree with Alex....They are very different watches and both are stellar in their appropriate settings. Yes the Overseas would seem to garnish more wrist time. Do you wear your current Overseas often? Could you add a leather strap to your current Overseas? I agree that the leather strap adds more flair and functionality than the bracelet...

TESSST