Ultra Thin Dial Question

Hello all! I am wondering about dial text on Ultra Thins from the '60s and '70s, specifically 6351s. Below are two pics. One dial reads "Vacheron & Constantin," "Genève," and "Swiss." The other dial reads "Vacheron Constantin," "Geneve," and "O Swiss O." I have seen the former far more frequently than the latter, so I am wondering if the second example is either fake or a redial. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

--Matthew

Ultra Thin Dial Question Ultra Thin Dial Question

11/01/2015 - 22:52
11/02/2015 - 16:06
11/02/2015 - 18:21
11/03/2015 - 01:43
11/03/2015 - 18:50
11/03/2015 - 19:41
Hi Matthew, welcome to THL!
11/02/2015 - 04:06

The key is the year of the second watch you showed.  If the first one was made in the 1960s, then I would say the dial printing looks correct (would need a much better close-up to really review the fonts, spacing, etc.)

VC changed its official name from "Vacheron & Constantin" to "Vacheron Constantin" in 1974.  So the second watch dial's printing appears to be OK to me if it was made after the name change.

Ref. numbers, such as 6351, refer to the case.  So a change in dial printing would not change the Ref. #.

Best Regards, Dan

Sigma symbol on VC dials
11/02/2015 - 16:06

This clipped from a old thread:

The Greek Sigma symbol  σ SWISS σ  that appears at the bottom of this dial was a mark of the Assoication pour la Promotion Industrielle de l'Or, which was founded in 1973 and used to signify that dial and/or indexes were made of gold.

Casebacks
11/02/2015 - 18:21

And how about casebacks? For instance, the first watch pictured above has the serial number on the outside of the caseback and the reference number on the inside:

Casebacks

Casebacks

Meanwhile, another 6351 I've seen with a seemingly identical dial to the first example above...

Casebacks

...has nothing on the outside of the caseback and both the serial and reference numbers on the inside:

CB2 Outer Casebacks

Also note the different style of manufacturer's stamp inside the two casebacks. Was all this common practice?

--Matthew

Check the Guide
11/02/2015 - 22:51
This was not unheard of
11/03/2015 - 00:54

If you have a particular watch that you're interested in, it is best to provide both the movement and case serial numbers to VC.  This can be done through their Concierge Service in North America.  VC will be able to confirm that the two numbers match and left the factory together.  This is not 100% in terms of authenticating a VC watch, as that can only be done by sending the watch back to Geneva for inspection...but it does go a long way in helping confirm authenticity.

This does not address anything in regards to dials or case back variations, which I've seen before and is not surprising if the watches were made many years apart, i.e. 60s vs. 70s.

V&C 6351
11/03/2015 - 01:43

If that top one is for sale and you're not going to buy it, let me know where you found it. :)

Auctionata
11/03/2015 - 18:50

I was sold by Auctionata (not sure when) for €3,840.00.

--Matthew

Here's a looker
11/03/2015 - 19:41