VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

Dear Member,

I have an opportunity to buy a Vacheron Constatin reference 33051, made around the early 1970s with the respectale Calibre 1003/1. In looking through the www, I noticed there are small differences in the way this reference looks in pictures. All the pictures on the internet are with the same reference number (33051) and same Calibre (1003/1), but I noticed that the hands are longer on some and shorter on others; and the VC cross logo (?) is very close to the "12" marker in some while farther away in others. The "Vacheron Constantin" fonts are a little different in some pictures, too. 

Am I looking at some replicas, or Re-dials, or variation in dial design from different years?

Below are pictures of the watch that I'm potentially buying, and below that are various pictures from the internet.

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC1_zps20iwrkrv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC2_zpsht1n3zqq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC3_zpsxjgacqew.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC4_zpswm1m3ezh.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC5_zpsixrmwcf5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC10_zpsc2qv8n1r.jpg[/...

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC11_zpsqadsezgq.jpg[/...

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC7_zpsgxdaw5rd.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/VC6_zpscvxw59zo.jpg[/IMG]

 

And, now, below are various, random pictures of the same reference pulled from the internet. Please notice that the watches in these pictures have hands that are slightly shorter and, in particular, the VC cross logo (?) are much closer to the "12" marker. The font is slightly different, too.

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/v4_zpssgc8ouiv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/v3%201987_zpst8z6yhyx....

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/v2_zpswuhpzmim.jpg[/IMG]

 

And, yet, other random photos of the same reference shows the watch to have the same hands and VC cross placement as the one I'm hoping to buy. Please compare these to the photos of the watch I'm considering (first set of pics above):

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/v5_zpsjjpoz0ox.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r306/javapunch/v6_zpsg7kilfb0.jpg[/IMG]

 

Please help. Am I looking at fakes, re-dials, or variations in design through different years? Should I buy, or sit out?

Thank you,

JNN

VC Reference 33051 - Repeat Post
11/09/2015 - 05:05

Me again. Sorry I don't know how to edit my original post to add photos directly, so I'll update them here, along with original text (I'm so sorry, and thank you for your patience as I learn to use this forum):

 

Dear Member,

I have an opportunity to buy a Vacheron Constatin reference 33051, made around the early 1970s with the respectale Calibre 1003/1. In looking through the www, I noticed there are small differences in the way this reference looks in pictures. All the pictures on the internet are with the same reference number (33051) and same Calibre (1003/1), but I noticed that the hands are longer on some and shorter on others; and the VC cross logo (?) is very close to the "12" marker in some while farther away in others. The "Vacheron Constantin" fonts are a little different in some pictures, too. 

Am I looking at some replicas, or Re-dials, or variation in dial design from different years?

Below are pictures of the watch that I'm potentially buying, and below these are various pictures from the internet.

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 

 

 

And, now, below are various, random pictures of the same reference pulled from the internet. Please notice that the watches in these pictures have hands that are slightly shorter and, in particular, the VC cross logo (?) are much closer to the "12" marker. The font is slightly different, too.

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 

 

 

And, yet, other random photos of the same reference shows the watch to have the same hands and VC cross placement as the one I'm hoping to buy. Please compare these to the photos of the watch I'm considering (first set of pics above):

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 

 

Please help. Am I looking at fakes, re-dials, or variations in design through different years? Should I buy, or sit out?

Thank you,

JNN

 

 

Great, that's better
11/09/2015 - 17:13

What is going on with this picture?  Something wrong with the dial or a photoshop effect?

Great, that's better

 

 

Re: Great, that's better
11/09/2015 - 18:44

Tick-Talk, I had wondered the same. But, in general, the photos with the watch bearing the cross logo so close to the "12" marker all seem either very clean versions of the watch or slightly later models (like from the 80s). Could there have been design changes on the dial, or complete dial-swaps, as in Frankenstein pieces?

Everything looks fine with that watch
11/10/2015 - 00:09

but you may want to submit the case and movement serial numbers to VC for verification, if only for the practice.  This can be done through a VC boutique or here by posting the numbers or submitting a private message to our moderator, Alex.  Make sure the seller is reputable and offers a good return policy, in case once you have the watch in hand there is something unsatisfactory.  I like the original buckle, and hope you are comfortable with the small size of this watch.

BTW, the post on Watchuseek is more helpful
11/10/2015 - 00:15

&

I was thinking the same thing
11/10/2015 - 00:13

It looks like the "magic lasso" auto select gone awry in Photoshop. You will notice a similar effect just above the hour hand. I would get better shots of the actual watch you are getting - well lit, easy to see all the details - not the glamor shots. And get good pictures of all the markings. The concierge can verify the match of the case and movement numbers. I get a twitchy feeling about this, but it could be because of all the other examples you posted. 

I see that the watch you are considering is now for sale on E-Bay
11/11/2015 - 13:19

Its currently in Bulgaria, so you must have some serious networks/connections to find watches.  I always wish for a more extensive network for my watch hunting.

Currently there are 3 bidders and the high bid is $2.25 so far.  Good luck bidding.

Beware Bulgaria
11/11/2015 - 15:53

not to cast aspersions on the entire population, but the worst fakes seem to originate in Bulgaria nowadays angry

Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 19:33

Here are more photos of the exact watch that I'm potentially buying.

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

 

Re: Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 19:38
Re: Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 20:15

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

Re: Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 20:33

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

Re: Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 20:36

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

Re: Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/09/2015 - 20:37

 VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!

Re: VC Ref. 33051 with Cal.3001/1 - Help!
11/10/2015 - 01:39

Thank you all for your replies. The concern is the lack of the ampersand "&" on the dial but its presence on the movement. My guess is that this watch is from around the time VC officially dropped the ampersand (1974) but was still using the movement leftover in inventory. I guess we'll never know for sure, but is this theory plausible?

I don't own this watch so this prevents sending it for verification. The catch-22 is that I want verification before buying it!

At he very least...
11/10/2015 - 02:16

The seller should be able to tell you the movement number and the case numebr.  With those, the concierge can tell you whether those two items shipped together from the factory whenever they were manufactured.  They should be able to confirm the year of manufacture as well.  They cannot gurantee that the watch has not been altered, but at the very least you will know that the piece is the original combination of case and movement.  Very good pictures (high resolution and good light) or the case and the movement would be helpful as well.