Vintage!

Thanks all of you, for your too kind appreciation of my post belowVintage!

You now know, that I'm a vintage guy in double sense,

and what I'm trying to do, is to open your eyes to the vintage world,

while it's still affordable to buy.

I see the prices already are raising.

And I think it's actually is more elegant, with a nice vintage watch,

than a modern, even though I happen to like this modern one.

But please compare!

Vintage!

V&C 1948.

Vintage!

V&C 1950

Vintage!

V&C 1937.

Vintage!

V&C 1939

Vintage!

It's a myth that they are small, I'm quite ordinary built, 176 cm tall,

and I can't see that they looks small, but perhaps I'm blind Vintage! 

Just some examples, don't only look at all beautiful new watches,

search in the history too Vintage!

Cheers

Doc

Doc, I can't afford new pieces anymore.
04/16/2008 - 14:10

More serious problem is that I also can't find vintage pieces too.

I am going into hibernation.

Regards

Ling

LOL !!
04/16/2008 - 21:53

vc

Agree and disagree...
04/16/2008 - 14:20

Let me start by saying that I am impressed by your shirt collection

As you know I came to VC via the vintage route and have only become interested in their modern pieces for the past few years when they started making designs which appealed to me (I have to admit nevertheless that I'm a huge fan of the Mercator and Jump Hour from the mid 90s) however the watches you show us are really exceptional in terms of design and condition and they still look contemporary 50-60-70 years after their production.

However there are still a load of vintage watches which today look outdated and dusty. The top of the line ages with grace and ends up with a je ne sais quoi which makes its patina an element of charm and distinction (like the ones you have posted and see below) but that's rather a minority in my opinion.

I guess what I'm trying to say and if I may give a word of advice for someone buying vintage is go for the exceptional, buy the condition of the watch and not only its price, also be patient because the vintage models in good condition are getting rarer and rarer...

You are right, of course in your opinion,
04/16/2008 - 19:26

my main message is to awake the "sleeping" interest for vintage.

We all know how important history is to mankind, and to our beloved VC,

so even when we buy new VC's, they keep all of them something of the past.

By learning through vintage watches, you also get a lot more out of the new ones.

The big problem is to find them, especially if you are not experienced.

Internet dealers and e---y are places that are easiest to find,

but could also be very dangerous.

I have bought watches from both, but I have a long experience,

and the more people gets interested in Vacheron&Constantin on the vintage market,

the more crap do you see. Some are very obvious but some are so exceptionally faked,

that you can't see it, on how many pics they ever offer!

Cases and movements are replaced, new dials, old dials on wrong watches,

and it's quite easy to sign a movement with VC's hallmark, and as easy on a case.

You must have good references to the dealer, and there are never any 100% safe.

I bought a pw VC from a e--y seller, with 100% feedback and over 1000 deals,

some years ago in USA, but it showed up to be a marriage, which means a real movement in a real case,

but they were not born together. So it's no VC....

I have asked you before, to check with Vacheron Constantin, if there could be any possibility for selling,

between us inside the Hour Lounge.

One way to go, could be that you weren't allowed to sell,

if you not had been a member for so or so long time,

or after 50-100-200 posts, or some other way.

Anyway this would be the safest way to buy and sell,

and the watches would come to a new loving parent

cheers

Doc

Its the fault of the lawyers....
04/16/2008 - 19:38

...as always

 I think the main issue VC's legal team have is the brand's liability in the event a deal goes sour (and before anyone asks, putting 10 pages of disclaimers won't change anything due to the reputaional risk because even though the sale is between 2 individual parties a bad deal done on VC's site could have adverse effect on the brand's reputation).

However I have an idea on how to make this work but rather not talk about it until VC management have given the green light (meaning don't think it will take place within the next few months, the Swiss are rather slow )

I LOVE LAWYERS !!!
04/16/2008 - 21:06

Yes it's true,

because I know only good ones!

First of all, my daughter will be a lawyer next year

Second, my own godson is a lawyer

Third, a very close friend, that's you Alex, is a lawyer

Once I started studing law for one year,

and I still regret that I didn't continue with my studies,

but the military service interfered

So I just became a Doc, as my Father, who always said:

"Whatever you do my son, don't be a doctor! "

But I did study medicine, mostly because the studies took long time,

and the student days were quite fun.......

Cheers

Doc   (amateur lawyer)

Re: I LOVE LAWYERS !!!
04/19/2008 - 17:17

ha ha ha, Doc, i'm a lawyer.  litigation lawyer, to be precise.  immigration officers get a kick whenever i travel and they ask what i do for a living and i tell them i have "a licence to take advantage of other people's miseries"!  i agree that the reputational damage would be tremendous if a deal blows in the Louge.  but i do wish Alex can find a way to get deals on vintages done in the Lounge.  i'm very new but in the Lounge but, already, i feel the mutual trust among the Loungers.  i, for one, would buy a vintage from a Lounger.  regards

Ruy

Re: You are right, of course in your opinion,
04/17/2008 - 08:47

Hi Doc,

Your e--y PW story is definitely a little frightening, especially after my recent online PW purchase.  All the more reason for me to send it in to VC for a CofA.

Thanks for letting us share from your experiences and I hope nobody here ever has that type of experience again.

BR, Dan

Doc, you are indeed the Lounger's king of vintage V&C!
04/16/2008 - 15:04

But I do love the DTR more

Thanks, but it should have an elder brother !
04/16/2008 - 21:59

Like here we always have two dogs, one old and one younger!

Cheers

Doc

Haha...good analogy! (nt)
04/17/2008 - 06:06

.

Re: Vintage!
04/16/2008 - 15:58

I think that just to call somethink "vintage" gives more appeal to a object. Especially if design is connectable witha precise "age" (for example, art deco, etc). Then dimensiona. Today we are used to wear 38-40mm watches. Vintage are on 30-36mm. More wearable, IMHO. Last, the vintage watch is often handmade (VC and other prestigeous maisons). Addition of these caratteristics gives an incredible charme to a vintage watch!

Thanks Mr 222 :-) nt
04/16/2008 - 21:59

vc

Matts, you know I am a contemporary VC design fan...
04/16/2008 - 16:14

but you posts have given me more knowledge on the history of the brand than any other sources. And they actually got me interested in the vintage V&C  pieces. My love towards 1972 Prestige de la France was stirred by your input in the Lounge.

Keep up the great work on the vintage field, Jefe

Thanks Radek,
04/16/2008 - 22:06

you are so kind, but I know you have a deep interest in design,

and I also think we share some common wievs of design.

Please see my answer in the post above to Alex,

as a direct result of your post!

Had it been like that, you would have had the 1972,

but this time it anyhow came to a keeper,

not as a trade, or sale object

But of course,

both you and I would probably been happier if you had got it

Cheers

Doc

Mats, let's push Alex to some further commitments on...
04/17/2008 - 00:14

a trade platform somehow connected to HL. Obviously VC management does not want to be held directly responsible for any defaults and brand depreciation is at stake (and that itself is a sanctity).

He is working on it ! nt
04/17/2008 - 00:38

vc

Re: Vintage!
04/17/2008 - 15:27

I think what makes the HL so special is the amount of posts, pictures and discussions on the vintage pieces.

It is a world a know little about, and therefore I always feel I'm learning something new.

Based on my experience on another forum, for a younger brand, the posts can get repetitive and boring pretty quickly if the only topic discussed is how great the recent collection (all 10 models!) is...

Having said that, I'm a modern guy, and Doc I much prefer your DTR to your vintage pieces (except for the one you have currently as your avatar...).

It is often said that one can get better deals going vintage, but then I think the real comparison point should not be the MSRP of the new models, but rather the price of the new models in the secondary or grey markets... After all, need to compare apples with apples, and it is unfair to look at the price of something used vs. something NIB...  And when taking that angle, while amazing deal still can get done on vintage, the difference is a lot less marked

I agree with you Doc,
04/18/2008 - 01:47

and I try as much as possible to get vintage watches in the best conditions, to make them live through time (it is the main reason anyway why they were created for!).

I like the unique patina of dials you can only find in vintages.

You have a great idea to create a kind of plateform for exchanging, selling between us, under conditions.

I hope Alex will be successful in doing it.