Which one would you choose and why

I think I know where the outcome will be but would like to hear the reasons why. I will begin first.

I have not seen the Malte platinum in person (yet) but from the pictures I like the look of the Vacheron. The case design is a bit more contemporary and I like the round pushers. I do like the classic look of the lugs on the 5070. Its Platinum Vs white gold

The dial is hands down the V&C. I don't like the 5070's sub-dials, they are to big and they crop off the numerals at 2, 4,  , &10. The V&C has applied numerals vs printed for the 5070. I do LIKE the hands on the 5070 better. The V&C dial has a nice vintage look while the 5070 is stark.

Movements are basically the same would be interesting to compare the finish.

I won't go into the pricing just evaluate them on their technical and aesthetic merits.Which one would you choose and why  

CK
01/25/2008 - 02:32
01/25/2008 - 13:39
01/25/2008 - 13:44
01/25/2008 - 14:40
01/25/2008 - 14:52
01/25/2008 - 22:16
I can't go into technical details since I'm no expert...
01/25/2008 - 00:46

1. Platinum over WG

2. VC design artfully combines vintage and modern

3. prefer VC hands over PP

4. VC dial is PT over silver

5. VC is a sure keeper not an investment

A very easy decision John.
01/25/2008 - 02:32

As you know I have never liked the 5070 nor can I comprehend the collector/buyer frenzy behind it.  It simply does not compare well versus the VC across a wide range of criteria.  The attributes already stated in favor of the VC are spot on, but there is one critical point missing - finishing of the movement.  This is where you will find VC's attention to detail at it's finest.

  

A question for you if I may:  If these two timepieces were newly introduced to a room full of collectors, layed out side by side sans the brand names, how many would really pick the 5070?

Regards to you and your better half.

Charlie 

Re: Which one would you choose and why
01/25/2008 - 03:04

Hi John,

I'll take the VC.

I owned an RG chrono which I loved but sold to fund the Chrono Perpetual. I really love the case especially the Malte lugs which are a bit Art Deco and have a nice flare and flair. But that's quite personal and I know many people are not crazy about the Malte design.

I prefer the guilloched dial on the RG which this version doesn't have so that's a wash although I do prefer the numerals and the timing tracks on the VC. The layout is cleaner and easier to read.

I see the subdials are bigger in the PP but that cuts into the beautiful applied numbers so I'll take the VC for that reason too. But I do prefer the hands on the PP (always been a favourite design for me) rather than the broad sword hands on the VC.

For me the pushers are not a big factor. The movements are similar too and the finish as well. But having visited both factories, I'm inclined to believe that the finish is better on the VC particularly the smaller pieces and that there is more hand-work involved...with VC.  You can have a look with a loup to see the anglage etc. on the pieces of the movement.

Now cost is a factor for me. So unless I was buying for investment, I would not even consider the PP. Even if someone were to give me the money, I could get the VC plus 1-2 other watches for the price of the PP

That's my 3 cents worth.

Regards,

Joseph

Are you mad to pay so much for the one on the left?
01/25/2008 - 03:05

For many many reasons, I will go for VC.  If I can afford 5070 WG, I will choose Datograph anytime.

Regards

Ling

I like the datograph movement but
01/25/2008 - 15:55

I don't care for the dial and the case is like having a hockey puck on my wrist (afflicted with a puny wrist).

Re: Which one would you choose and why
01/25/2008 - 03:11

I prefer the look of the dial and case of the VC but the movement side of the Patek.

Interesting, is there something specific
01/25/2008 - 15:48

that catches your eye?

I think my answer is the simplest.
01/25/2008 - 04:38

For investment purpose (the name that says it all at the moment)...PP.

For other reason other than investment...VC.

I 'stole' this answer from someone. My case, I chose VC.

Another thing, how many would>>>
01/25/2008 - 04:45

choose the 5070 over 47120 if it didn't have the name "Patek Philippe" on the dial? Now, PP=money. You buy PP (especially 5070), you WON'T lose money and most people like that idea. That's the hype formed in the market. They already spend a lot of money, "why not earn more later in the future AFTER I'm done wearing the watch?"  I find it ridiculous when people say 5070 is more balanced, bla...bla...over the Malte chrono. 47120 is sexier than 5070  

Re: Which one would you choose and why
01/25/2008 - 05:19

I also prefer the VC overall by a long shot. Though if money was an issue I'd like to do the following changes:

  1. More guillochage work on the dial (even if platinum will not be the material of choice)
  2. I wouldn't mind if the VC's lugs would have that totally organic teardrop look of vintage models (or the completely out of my reach Cabinotiers models).
  3. I agree with JohnLy regarding the hands, I'd go for something simpler and more readable.

Perhaps I subliminally show my weakness for Voutilainen's chronograph...

Would probably go for the VC
01/25/2008 - 06:00

The 5070 is a very unoffensive design which is to say that it is not ugly, but in my opinion it is somewhat lacking in character (I guess this is PP's "understated" design).  I would say that the demand for this piece is spurred more by the investment and "image" factors than anything else (as pointed out by everyone).  

As for the VC, I am not too fond of the Malte lugs and sword hands (I like the daggers on the Datograph), but you gotta love the dial design and finishing! 

Just my 2 yens worth.

kazumi

considering that you are on the VC forum...
01/25/2008 - 11:37

I'm not surprised by the answers but I know that the Loungers are very open and would not hesitate to say what is truly on their mind had their opinions been in favor of the PP So Kudos to all

Patek 5070 likes: The large subdials and hands and the rectangular pushers.

Patek 5070 dislikes: case too massive, the combo of WG case and white dial look bland (the RG model does look good though). The design is too conservative

Vacheron Malte chrono likes: case with its rounded curvy band, the lugs, the gorgeous platinum dial

Vacheron Malte chrono dislikes: not fan of the round pushers, the arrow tipd seconds counter

In terms of finish PP adds a Gyromax balance whereas VC has a swan neck fine adjustment. I don't have a side by side scan of the 5070 and malte chrono but here's a side by side photo of the 3970 and Malte perpetual chrono and to the naked eye the VC has a better finished movement.

If it were my money (and having seen and tried both the PP and the VC) I would go for the VC because I just like the looks and feel much better. The platinum dial is drop dead gorgeous and the overall design of the Malte is more contemporary and has more finess to is. Surprisingly the pushers on the VC are even smoother than on the Patek.

Considering that both have more or less the same list price but the PP is in gold and the VC in platinum and limited to only 75 pieces the choice is rapidly made.

Thanks Alex you made some interesting points,
01/25/2008 - 15:11

It does bring up a question I have always wondered about, that is why doesn't Vacheron go to a free sprung balance? Many times during conversations when I have posed the question, 'whats the difference in quality in the movements between Vacheron & Patek " inevitably(sp) this subject comes up.

Many out there believe the gyromax (free sprung) is superior to the swan neck fine adjustment. One being better balanced than the other. Yet when we look at the timing accuracy (using the chronometer royal as ex) they both seem to perform equally well. Is this a true statement and is there a reason Vacheron hasn't changed to the free sprung design?

If the two designs are equal in accuracy then I am glad that Vacheron kept to the more traditional (old fashioned?) design, its much more pleasing to look at (as are screwed down gold chatons). 

I also agree with you on the arrow tipped hands. They seem out of place on such an elegant dial.

In regards to the pushers, I want to focus on the body of the case and large pushers will take away the look of the case. This is why I would prefer not to have the sleeve around the pushers. So in this case either works for me but would like to eliminate the sleeve.

I am a big fan of the case that is used on the 1755 Jubile, was this case just for the 250th anniversary? I hope not I would like to see that used on a line of complicated watches.....just dreaming

swan neck regulation vs free sprung
01/25/2008 - 15:30

I'm not a watchmaker so I'm just repeating what I have read here and there.  The pro free sprung say that a regulator racket plays with the length of the overcoil which is not good. The pro regulators say that witha free sprung you don't get the same accuracy.

There was a rather interesting debate on this in a recent watch Time issue where different watchmakers discussed it. Each system seems to have its pros and cons so I can't really comment on it.

Re the 250th anniversary cases I agree with you, they are gorgeous but unfortunately will never be used again

The chronograph invites you to the labyrinth.
01/25/2008 - 19:09

As for me, you understand it has various ideas from the contribution about chronograph for the movement and dial, etc.

I agree with the opinion of Alex. VC produces the chronograph with an interpretation that is more classic than PP. is Intergraph designed especially because the chronograph is understood well. It is my personal opinion, and the company that defends such a tradition doesn't think that it exists in watch producing company that is skillful in the chronograph now.

Please refer to the scans.                                                 

                                                            The rare vintage chronograph

                                                          Pt Malte chronograph

Thank you.

V.Piguet

been down that road and I chose
01/25/2008 - 13:12

I used to own a 5070 in WG which I really liked but like you when I saw the Malte chronograph in platinum it was a no brainer... I immediately sold the 5070 to fund the VC! The Patek is a very classical watch to a point where I considered that it lacked some "oomp" especially for a watch on the larger size. On the other hand the VC is drop dead sexy and the way the light reflects on the sand blasted platinum dial is pure poetry. I also like the Malte lugs which give the watch a more playful look. I just wish they would get rid of the "chronograph" written on the dial. In the end its which one puts a smile on your face, the 5070 put a smile on my face but the Malte chrono put a huge grin so I chose the latter. Good luck on your decision and in any event you can't go wrong with either one of these fine chronographs

here's a sacn of my watch
01/25/2008 - 13:14

Congrats, it's a beauty!
01/25/2008 - 13:28

I agree the inscription 'chronographe' on the dial is unnecessary although it doesn't bother me as much as the 'PT 950'.

In any way, I wish I was a happy owner of this marvelous - 'best chrono in the world' - watch.

May it time happy moments only!

I love this picture of the dial.
01/25/2008 - 14:42

nt

The PP for me...
01/25/2008 - 13:39

we already told about his subject on the HL if i remember.

The VC is better finished in my opinion: applied and not cutted numerals (like on the PP...I hate this), nicer pushers than on the 5070, a very clear dial...and nearly 8000€ less expensive than the PP

But I don't know why, I prefer the 5070

I'm 100% for the VC
01/25/2008 - 13:44

I think most reasons by now have been given, so excusez moi if I sound redundant… For me the 5070 PP is too bland (like a lot of their model), and the VC Malte chrono Excellence Platine is one of my favourite VC watches ever... I personally love the Malte lugs, very art deco as JB said (having said that, the lugs of the PP are still very nice) I much prefer the dial layout of VC, it is easier to read and looks more balanced. Platinum vs. WG? That’s no contest… I’m in love with the Excellence Platinum collection, and I find the frosted platinum dials absolutely superb, so IMO this is a BIG plus for VC. The only thing I prefer on the PP is its pushers… Now, is this a theoretical question, or do you really have the choice? I’m asking because now it has been confirmed by PP that they are discontinuing the 5070 and the 5970. In fact, these 2 models are no longer on PP’s price list, and according to a moderator on another forum who knows a lot more than I do, PP only takes models off its price list when it is sure that there is no single model left with any AD…

I really have the choice
01/25/2008 - 14:40

and already made up my mind. I had the 5070 in the past and was not a big fan. I have never actually held the Vacheron and have only seen pictures. I had already decided to go with the Vacheron for many of the reasons already stated above and to be honest I don't think I will hurt myself when it comes time to sell it for the next one that hits my fancy.

good choice!
01/25/2008 - 14:52

...and not wanting to sound to much like an "investor", hopefully you'll be able to make a buck on that one if ever you decide to part with it!

Hi John, see Radek's post above and you have the answer !
01/25/2008 - 16:54

NT

I would go for the VC because...
01/25/2008 - 19:01

the platinum case and dial are exquisite, and the PP is only WG.  They also have basically the same movement with Geneva Seal, so from a technical standpoint they are equal. The VC would win in my book.

Best Regards,

Mike

I would choose none of them
01/25/2008 - 20:12

I don't like the 5070 because i find the watch too big, don't like the double bezel and the movement is too small for the case.

I don't like the VC because of the hands, the chrono pushers.

I would choose a VC chrono historique (the former one) or a Lange 1815 chrono.

I want to thank all of you for your
01/25/2008 - 20:28

detailed replies. Whether you like or dislike the watch or certain features you would like to see changed....it shows the passion and involvement you have for the watches. As I said it brings enjoyment back to watches.

John

None !
01/25/2008 - 22:16

The movements are too small compared to the case.

I don't like the pushers of the VC and concerning the PP I think the case is too thick for a dressy watch.

PP and VC have both many others models that are almost perfect.

My 2 cts.